Monday, 14 December 2015

The Sign of the Son of Man



In the amount of time that has passed since my book Unveiling the Apocalypse was first published in 2011, there have been a number of significant events which bear direct relevance to the material it had originally covered.  In light of this, I have been prompted to expand the book considerably in a forthcoming second edition, which will be published early in the New Year. The whole book has been updated throughout, and I have included a new chapter comprised of over 20,000 words detailing the significance of several prophecies concerning a great cross of light appearing in the night sky over the Holy Land. In this new material, I show how the Early Church Fathers had expected that the Sign of the Son of Man mentioned by Christ in His eschatological discourse on Mount Olivet would unfold in the form of the supernatural appearance of the Cross of Golgotha over Jerusalem, in order to bring about the conversion of the Jews before the Second Coming of Christ. The Church Fathers believed that this event would be the ultimate fulfillment of the prophecy of Zech 12:

And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn. On that day the mourning in Jerusalem will be as great as the mourning for Hadad-rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. The land shall mourn, each family by itself... (Zech 12:10-12)

The most famous of the prophecies concerning the appearance of a cross of light in the sky is perhaps that of St. Faustina:

Before I come as a just judge, I am coming first as the King of Mercy. Before the day of justice arrives, there will be given to people a sign in the heavens of this sort: All light in the heavens will be extinguished, and there will be great darkness over the whole earth. Then the sign of the cross will be seen in the sky, and from the openings where the hands of feet of the Savior were nailed will come forth great lights which will light up the earth for a period of time. This will take place shortly before the last day.

The expectation that the cross would appear in the sky at the end time to herald the Second Advent of Christ stretches back a lot further than the beginning of the 20th century however. St. Thomas a Kempis refers to this prophetic expectation in his Imitation of Christ, written in the 15th century:

"This sign of the cross will be in the heavens when the Lord comes to judge. Then all the servants of the cross, who during life made themselves one with the Crucified, will draw near with great trust to Christ, the judge."
(St. Thomas a Kempis, Imitation of Christ, Book 2 Chapter 12)

It was also mentioned in the writings of St. Thomas Aquinas:

“The sign of the cross will appear at the judgment, to denote not a present but a past weakness: so as to show how justly those were condemned who scorned so great mercy, especially those who persecuted Christ unjustly. The scars which will appear in His body will not be due to weakness, but will indicate the exceeding power whereby Christ overcame His enemies by His Passion and infirmity. He will also show forth His most shameful death, not by bringing it sensibly before the eye, as though He suffered it there; but by the things which will appear then, namely the signs of His past Passion, He will recall men to the thought of His past death.”(St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, Question 90, Article 2, Reply to objection 2)

The equation of the Sign of the Son of Man with the appearance of a cross of light in the night sky over Jerusalem in order to herald the end of days goes back all the way back to the infant Church, and can even be found in the Didache - one of the earliest Christian writings outside of the New Testament:

For in the last days false prophets and corrupters shall be multiplied, and the sheep shall be turned into wolves, and love shall be turned into hate; for when lawlessness increases, they shall hate and persecute and betray one another, and then shall appear the world-deceiver as the Son of God, and shall do signs and wonders, and the earth shall be delivered into his hands, and he shall do iniquitous things which have never yet come to pass since the beginning. Then shall the creation of men come into the fire of trial, and many shall be made to stumble and shall perish; but they that endure in their faith shall be saved from under the curse itself. And then shall appear the signs of the truth; first, the sign of an outspreading in heaven; then the sign of the sound of the trumpet; and the third, the resurrection of the dead; yet not of all, but as it is said: The Lord shall come and all His saints with Him. Then shall the world see the Lord coming upon the clouds of heaven.
(Did 16:6-17)

The Early Church Fathers taught that the Sign of the Son of Man would precede the Second Coming of Christ in the same way that an advance guard would bear the standard of the king before he marched into battle. One of the most detailed accounts of can be found in the writing of the Doctor of the Church St. Cyril of Jerusalem:


This [Cross] shall appear again with Jesus from heaven; for the trophy shall precede the king: that seeing Him whom they pierced Zechariah 12:10, and knowing by the Cross Him who was dishonoured, the Jews may repent and mourn; (but they shall mourn tribe by tribe, for they shall repent, when there shall be no more time for repentance) and that we may glory, exulting in the Cross, worshipping the Lord who was sent, and crucified for us, and worshipping also God His Father who sent Him, with the Holy Ghost: To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.


Somewhat amazingly, St. Cyril had personally witnessed this phenomenon himself in the 4th century, in a circumstances which can only be said to have anticipated the future occurrence of this event.  


On the nones (or 7th) of May, about the third hour, (or nine in the morning,) a vast luminous body, in the form of a cross, appeared in the heavens, just over the holy Golgotha, reaching as far as the holy mount of Olivet, (that is, almost two English miles in length,) seen not by one or two persons, but clearly and evidently by the whole city. This was not, as may be thought, a momentary transient phenomenon: for it continued several hours together visible to our eyes, and brighter than the sun; the light of which would have eclipsed it, had not this been stronger. The whole city, struck with a reverential fear, tempered with joy, ran immediately to the church, young and old, Christians and heathens, citizens and strangers, all with one voice giving praise to our Lord Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, the worker of miracles; finding by experience the truth of the Christian doctrine, to which the heavens bear witness." Letter of St. Cyril of Jerusalem to Constantius


In this new material, I will show how this is an integral component to interpreting the Secrets of Fatima, and that Scripture informs us that the appearance of the Sign of the Son of Man will immediately precede the occurrence of the eschatological earthquake in Jerusalem - which will serve as a warning to humanity of the impending Great Chastisement, culminating in the Final Passover of the Church during the persecution of the Antichrist. The Sign of the Son of Man is one and the same as the Great Sign seen in heaven described in Rev 12, and just as the Star of Bethlehem heralded the First Advent of Christ, the appearance of this great cross of light will usher in the Second Advent of Our Lord.


And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. She was pregnant and was crying out in birth pains and the agony of giving birth. (Rev 12:1-2)

153 comments:

Cetera said...

Emmett, I'm exceedingly interested in the revised book. My only copy of your current book I have is on my kindle. Do I need to purchase it again, or will I get the update automatically? I'm not sure how Amazon's self-published stuff works.

Also, have you considered an audio version of your book? Have you heard of ACX.com, where you can basically self-publish an audio version? You submit your book, audition for narrators, and they can either be paid by a portion of royalties or by a flat fee, decided by you.

I would love an audio book version of this new version of your book. I pretty much only listen to audio books anymore, just from my phone, while I do chores, drive, or any time I have alone.

Mark W said...

Good ol' paper and ink for me. You can't put margin notes on a tablet. And underlining things gets pretty messy.

I eagerly await the new edition - in paper and ink.

Anonymous said...

I can't help but view the current Jubilee Year of Mercy as a sort of figure of the coming of Christ as the King of Mercy in the days immediately before the End. Similarly, it has been posited by those of the Fatima Apostolate that this Year has been appointed by a Pope who wants to fulfill the requests made at Fatima, but whose hands are tied, as far as attempts to do so are concerned. It's a year of extraordinary mercy given to us before the chastisements that we were warned would come if the requests of Our Lady were not fulfilled. Many believe it will begin in November of 2017, for October will be the 100th anniversary of the Miracle of the Sun, and there is the famous warning that if the Pope delays as the King of France did, he will follow him into misfortune. The King of France was supposed to consecrate his country to the Immaculate Heart, but a few successive kings failed to do so. Exactly 100 years after that request was made, there was the French Revolution, and the King was beheaded. Here we have the (still unexplained) vision of a Pope being shot dead by bullets and arrows, surrounded by the bodies of the dead, and many believe that the centenary will mark the time the Pope must perform the Consecration and FULLY reveal the Third Secret, or the terrible natural disasters and great war will come to pass, annilitating entire nations. Fr. Amorth has put forth that, if these things are not done by the end of November 2017, these chastisements will begin ANY DAY thereafter. Things in the Middle East are heating up even more, and are currently poised to go either way, peace or war.
.
The key is, we too must do our part. We are asked to make the Five First Saturdays of Reparation, pray the Rosary every day, and wear the Brown Scapular. Our Lady told Sister Lucy at one point that even the good are not doing enough. I firmly believe that it is our own obedience to Our Lady which will hasten the triumph of the Immaculate Heart. Similarly, I remember reading once that our prayers and sacrifices will hasten the Second Coming and the attendant end to sin and sorrow. Yes, the days immediately preceding it will be terrible. But any suffering those of us who are still around when that time comes, will go a long way to make reparation for the sins of all of us. It will empty Purgatory (Christ told Elizabeth Kellerman that this is the goal) and save innumerable souls still in this world.

- JMC

Cetera said...

JMC said
Things in the Middle East are heating up even more, and are currently poised to go either way, peace or war.

I have insufficient knowledge to fully evaluate and critique everything you have said, except for this sentence, which is grossly inaccurate. Things in the Middle East are heating up, that part is true. Things are currently poised between a war, and the BIGGEST war. There will be no peace, barring explicit Divine intervention visible to all as a miracle.

Emmett O'Regan said...

Thanks Cetera, I'll look into that. I get the feeling that my book doesn't shift enough copies for something like this to be worthwhile. Maybe if it sold better... Second editions are considered to be completely separate from the first edition on Kindle, in the same way it is on paper. So I'm afraid you will need to purchase it again if you want to read the new material. Although it doesn't cost that much on Kindle, because there is no physical copy. I have to agree with Mark W though - I much prefer paper versions, especially for research purposes.

Mark W said...

Cetera -

Et ...

Mark

P.S. Sorry. Couldn't resist the obvious temptation.

Mark L said...

Great post Emmett, thank you.

I wasn't aware of that miracle which St. Cyril and so many others witnessed. I looked it up, and just past the section you quote it says that the cross was "encircled with a large rainbow."

I saw an interesting clip from Rabbi Cahn where he talked about the desecration of the rainbow, which had been used by God as a sign of His covenant but which has since been desecrated by us and used as a triumphant sign of our desecration of marriage.

You can hear it here - jump in to 16 minutes:

http://sidroth.org/television/tv-archives/jonathan-cahn-0

I find it quite compelling, especially since I listened to it one day ago and now just read about the role of the rainbow in that miraculous 4th century precursor of the Sign of the Son of Man.

Mark L.

Mark W said...

Cool video, MarkL. Thanks for posting it.

I'm not sure how a rainbow is a holy vessel. Does that make any sense?

The more I see of Jonathan Cahn, the more I like him.

Thanks again,
MarkW

Anonymous said...

In the apparitions at Akita, Our Lady told the Sister that, after the fire falls from the sky, there will be no access to Mass or the Eucharist (probably because very few people, much less priests, will be left alive), and that the survivors will only have the "sign" left by her Son. At the time the material on Akita was published, in the 1990s, nobody could figure out what that meant. I think this cross of light may be the answer.

- JMC

Anthony said...

To Anonymous. The consecration has already been done by St John Paul 11. Sister Lucia confirmed this in writing several times that Heaven had accepted the consecration. We saw Communism fall in the Soviet Union and the Eastern block. The Berlin wall came down. In Russia today Christianity is coming back very strongly. Church attendance has more that tripled since the fall of Communism. What we are seeing is the gradual unfolding of Our Lady's promise. And maybe October 2017 will see the triumph of Our Lady's Immaculate Heart and the Era of peace.
God Bless all on this site.

Anthony

Gus Barbarigo said...

To JMC, Cetera, and the host and readers of this fascinating blog:

Reportedly, the Chastisement warning of Fr. Amorth dealt with October 2015, with the Chastisement beginning in November 2015:

http://www.returntofatima.org/tag/father-amorths-chastisement-warning/


Are we in a Chastisement now? People in Paris, San Bernardino, and areas of Europe invaded by hordes of Mohammedans, would probably say, Yes.

Gus Barbarigo said...


To JMC, Cetera, and the host and readers of this fascinating blog:

Reportedly, the Chastisement warning of Fr. Amorth dealt with October 2015, with the Chastisement beginning in November 2015:

http://www.returntofatima.org/tag/father-amorths-chastisement-warning/


Are we in a Chastisement now? People in Paris, San Bernardino, and areas of Europe invaded by hordes of Mohammedans, would probably say, Yes.

Anonymous said...


anthony
consecration is not done!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.fatima.org/essentials/opposed/cvrup3.asp

Sr. Lucia Speaks Again

A year later, in May of 1982, the Vatican newspaper L’Osservatore Romano published an article about Sr. Lucia by Father Umberto Maria Pasquale, a Salesian priest who had known her since 1939. Fr. Pasquale reported that Sr. Lucia told him emphatically that Our Lady had never asked for the consecration of the world, but only of Russia. He also published a photographic reproduction of a handwritten note to him from Sr. Lucia confirming this point.
The Pope Makes an Admission

The day after this article appeared, Pope John Paul II visited Fatima, where he again consecrated the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. A few days later, in an article in L’Osservatore Romano, the Pope explained why he had failed to mention Russia specifically, saying he had "tried to do everything possible in the concrete circumstances." This was widely interpreted to mean that he could not violate the terms of the Vatican’s continuing policy of appeasing Russia.
Our Lady Still "Awaiting Our Consecration"

Two years later, this evasive approach was taken again when the Holy Father once more consecrated the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary in a ceremony before 250,000 people in Rome in March of 1984. But this time, the Pope made his position clearer. In a departure from his prepared text, he asked Our Lady of Fatima to "enlighten especially the peoples of which You Yourself are awaiti.......................................

Anonymous said...


http://www.fatimacrusader.com/cr113/cr113.pdf#page=40


NEW LIGHT ON THE
CONSECRATION OF RUSSIA

Jason R. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jason R. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jason R. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mark W said...

Does anyone consider Fr. Amorth to be a reliable source? By his own count, he'd have to do something like 3 exorcisms per day to keep up with the numbers he's talked about.

And if we were in the chastisement now, I think it would be a wee bit more dramatic.

Anthony said...

To Anonymous. You are correct Sr Lucia did say that the 1982 consecration was not done correctly. But the 1984 consecration Sr Lucia wrote two separate letters saying that heaven had accepted the consecration. And it is important to look at the fruits of this consecration. Communism collapsed in the Soviet Union and all the eastern block countries were liberated from communism. And church attendance has nearly quadrupled in Russia. The mayor of Moscow is in the process of building 600 churches in the greater Moscow region. Also it is very important to quote directly from Sr Lucia and not have other peoples interpretations and views as these are usually wrong. Read Sr Lucia's diary and you will see how much false information is out there about Fatima.

God bless

Anthony

Anonymous said...

Before answering the charge that prompted
this reply, a charge that is easily refuted, I wish
first to address the fundamental underlying
issue: Has the Consecration of Russia been
accomplished? Putting aside for the moment
all arguments concerning what the Pope said
or failed to say in 1984, and the meaning of it,
let us focus on what no one who professes to
believe in the Message of Fatima disputes: that
Our Lady promised the conversion of Russia
if Russia were rightly consecrated to Her
Immaculate Heart.
Would youe really care to defend
the proposition that we have witnessed the
conversion of Russia since 1984? How,
then, would he account for the reality that
today

more than a quarter-century after
the “consecration” Russia is a neo-Stalinist
dictatorship with the highest per capita abortion
rate in the Western world? Is this the conversion
of Russia?
nd how would you explain
Russia’s emergence since 1984 as the world
capital of child pornography? In Russia there is
“no law against the possession or procurement
of child pornography, which is considered a
minor, victimless crime...” and “there has
been little public outcry in response to Russia’s
explosion of paedophilia and child pornography
rings.”
5
Is this the conversion of Russia
In Russia today, Catholics remain a
minuscule minority, less than one percent, most
of whom reside in Siberia, where Stalin sent
their ancestors. These few Catholics are served
almost entirely by foreign-born priests who
cannot remain in the country for more than 90
days at a time because the 1997 Russian law
on “freedom of conscience” treats them as
ministers of a foreign sect. Russian Muslims
outnumber Russian Catholics by six-to-one. Is
this the conversion of Russia?
The best evidence that Russia was not
consecrated in 1984 is the abysmal state of
Russia today, 26 years later; it is still “that poor
nation,” as Lucia called it. There has been no
conversion of Russia, and to say that there has
been is to insult Our Lady.
Case closed

Anonymous said...

Read Sr Lucia's diary and you will see how much false information is out there about Fatima.

Bertone wrote a book of lies after saying he spoke to lucia while she was alive.

evidently you don't think the devil would prompt the deception of consecration acconplishment after most if not all of the readers of the secret have died.

What must the secret be that the church won't itemize/ reveal it if everything is ok with russia?

maybe you are not aware that russia is protecting syria and iran

J.M.J.

Anonymous said...

Who is to say how long the conversion of Russia will take, I don't remember Our Lady giving any specific time line? Anyone who doesn't think the collapse of the CCCP wasn't a darn good start, well, I wouldn't even know where to begin. An avowedly militantly atheistic country that spent every resource it had exporting communism to other countries around the world, horrible persecution of Christians, and specifically Catholics, throughout the Warsaw Pact nations, etc. Maybe the full fruit of the conversion of Russia wasn't meant to be overnight, but the change we've seen so far from pre-1984 Soviet Union to today's Russia is nothing short of miraculous. There is still much change needed, but I'm fully convinced without the 1984 consecration we'd have all perished in a nuclear holocaust long before today.

I've read all the conspiracy theories about Sr. Lucia being replaced by a double, or otherwise coerced, and there isn't a shred of real solid evidence, it's all conjecture. I'm not convinced at all by any of it, and I trust in Our Lord's promise that the Magisterium is free of error what in comes to doctrine and morals. A lot of the people who are saying the consecration hasn't been done, as it the link to that issue of the Fatima Crusader, are questioning the validity of Pope Francis's election, opening calling several respected Cardinals out-and-out liars, etc. That whole issue seemed filled with a spirit of open rebellion against the teaching authority of the Church... I didn't get a get feeling from reading it at all.

Anonymous said...

I highly recommend everyone having a discussion regarding the full reveal of the "3rd Secret" to read THE FOURTH SECRET by Antonio Socci. Anyone who is OPEN to the discussion should read it. It does show that Bertoni is FAR from telling the truth regarding Sr. Lucia and his meetings with her. And we know regardless of the aspects and arguments -- we have not yet entered into the full time of the problems that are coming. Probably 2017 is the mark of the beginning of that time. The Year of Mercy probably figures into this timeline as well -- unless its a coincidence that the Year of Mercy comes right before the 100th anniversary year of the apparitions in Fatima. More then likely - our Lord is granting another moment of mercy -- especially, first, for those in the Faith - and then in the coming years - an awakening of consciences of all - and the ability to ask for mercy.
Michael Patrick

Emmett O'Regan said...

Sorry for the late reply Jason, I've been really busy for the past few days. I'll try to respond to your questions shortly.

anthony said...

To Anonymous. You make some good points, Russia has a long way to go before it is fully converted. But if you can read Sister Lucia's diary and also the letters that she wrote about the 1984 consecration, she says heaven accepted the consecration, what other explanation is there for the fall of the most evil empire in history.
And Antonio Socci is not a credible source for information about Fatima just like the late Fr Gruner he has been very guilty of bending and distorting facts and engaging in speculation which the publication of Sister Lucia's diary exposes. The source we should always consult first is Sister Lucia. And remember St John Paul 11 was the pope at the time when the secret was revealed. Was he telling lies when he said the secret had been revealed. Sister Lucia is on the record stating that the secret was revealed. What wasn't revealed and you can read this in Sister Lucia's diary was the explanation of the secret because Our Lady told Sister Lucia not to reveal this but only the vision was to be written down.

God Bless

Anthony


Anonymous said...

anthony thanks

will do

Anonymous said...


anthony
are you referring to a distinct diary report of explicit word by lucia or a composite reported by her nunery.

as in-----http://www.scripturecatholic.com/feature-articles/Fatima/Feature%20-%20Astonishing%20New%20Revelations%20from%20Sister%20Lucia%20of%20Fatima.pdf

stonishing New Revelations
from Sister Lucia of Fatima
More Evidence of a Missing Third Secret Text
John F. Salza, J.D.
The Remnant
, January 2015

Anonymous said...


anthony

i am sorry but in just a short time after reading your post, i feel that if the church has gone to the explicit actions to keep lucia quiet for all these years the coincidence of all these new relevations upon her death seem dubious at best to me.

The last few years of hearing and reading about this has lead me to a more cynical view of the church as an institution and after hearing lately that we all pray to the same GOD I AM EVEN MORE unsettled. When the topics touch on catholic essentials and are different then i have been taught i am adrift.
I really don't accept most of what is relayed to us on EWTN, the wanderer , the remenant. Each has examples of error.

Jason R. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anthony said...

To Anonymous. The diary I refer to is the one that the nuns from Lucia convent published. They published Lucia's diary a year or ago. That diary is what you want to refer to not any comment from The Remnant or the Fatima Crusade or the late Father Gruner or Antonio Socci. Unfortunately all these people and organisations have indulged in speculation based upon an ignorance of the true facts.
Sister Lucia was not silenced by the Vatican they had no reason to silence her and also remember the times that she spoke out for example the first consecration that St John Paul 11 did in the early Eighties, Sister Lucia told St John Paul 11 that he had not done the consecration properly and told him to do it again and the pope did. Also Sister Lucia wrote several letters stating that heaven had accepted the consecration and sister Lucia stated that no one speaks for her and that she opens all her letters herself and answers them herself.
Now it is true to say that Russia is not converted yet neither have we seen the Era of peace and the Triumph of Our Lady's Immaculate Heart. But I believe this is unfolding gradually. I know we all expected all this to happen much quicker. But God's ways are not our ways. And God has his plan. We must have patience and faith. Remember what Jesus said "The gates of hell will not prevail against our holy church". And who do you believe do you believe Jesus or Antonio Socci. And when St John Paul 11 released the secret which Sister Lucia stated on the record was the full secret do you believe both of them were telling lies?. No I would believe our holy pope John Paul over any journalist or The Remnant or The Fatima Crusade.

God bless

Anthony

Anonymous said...

St. John Paul II was undoubtedly a great man and powerful Vicar of Christ,however; he was not Christ. He was born of original sin and he was duped by certain figures in the Church. I'm thinking of Father Maciel and the Legionnares of Christ scandal, the sexual scandal that rocked the U.S. Catholic Church from Boston and since has cost the Church 4 billion dollars in legal cases. Cardinal Bertone is embroiled in his own scandal and just today is giving 150 000 L to a catholic hospital in Rome. JPII was prophetic in many cases and Cardinal Ratzinger was instrumental in facilitating many of these calls. My point is did Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI believe that the 3rd secret was completely revealed??? I think he is the missing link in a lot of these discussions. And for discussion sake Pope Benedict XVI didn't trust Maciel, was on to the stupidity of the US Catholic Church scandal and was instrumental in creating a more transparent Church and I'm not that sure if he truly was a Bertone follower. God Bless to all this Christmas. 2016 will be an interesting year for all.

Jason R. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...



somebody is incorrect!!

Sister Lucy Silenced

In 1960, the Holy See imposed some very strict conditions of isolation on Sister Lucy, the
very same year that the Third Secret was to be revealed to the world... and wasn’t.

http://www.fatima.org/f4b/sister_lucy_silenced.pdf

Anonymous said...



For those who still doubt that Sister Lucy has been silenced by some "officials" we need only reflect on the following facts. In the July-August 1982 issue of one U.S.A. journal it was alleged that in May 1982, Sister Lucy had stated that the Consecration of Russia was done according to the requests of Our Lady of Fatima. This false story, this crude hoax,1 was reported around the world and believed by many people. Sister Lucy's first official opportunity to deny this outright falsehood was given to her, only on March 19, 1983.

On that date the Pope's representative to Portugal went to Coimbra. His Grace, Archbishop Portalupi went specifically to meet Sister Lucy. He brought with him two witnesses. Sister Lucy had prepared a written statement. It was on that historic occasion that Sister Lucy then and there denied the aforementioned false report of the alleged May 1982 interview. She said:

"The Consecration of Russia has not been made as Our Lady has demanded," and "I could not say so because I did not have the permission of the Holy See."

Thus in this important matter, upon which the peace of the whole world depends, namely the Consecration of Russia, the whole world was misled for nine months because Sister Lucy, from August 1982 until March 1983, was not allowed to speak. It is obvious that she was silenced. She has remained so to this day.

http://www.worldenslavementorpeace.com/e10cp2.asp

Anonymous said...



evedently this is your souce of thhe real truth you expouse.

unity publishing and this fellow

Rick Salbato

.we are all free to decide what we believe

good luck to you and merry christmas

Anonymous said...

Regardless of whether you believe Sr Lucia was silenced or not -- it makes absolutely NO sense that our Lady -- who showed the 3 children in Fatima visions previous to the 3rd part (the 3rd secret) --and each time she SPOKE in regard to what the children were seeing -- explaining to them what they were seeing and why. So, to think that she would allow them to see the vision that was revealed to all of us in June 2000 "the 3rd Secret" -- and have NO accompanying words is absolute nonsense. It makes no sense and does not follow her pattern.
We're all supposed to just come up with our own explanation of probably the most important vision given to humanity in 2000 years? Really?!! There is no need for fear. Read Socci's book and make up your own mind. What I believe gives Socci much credit are 2 things: 1) He was avidly behind the release of the vision in 2000 and felt that all of the "Fatamists" who said "Where are the words of our Lady in connection with the vision" were crazy 2) He personally knows Bertone and Ratzinger from his being a very respected Vatican journalist for years leading up to him writing the book 'The Fourth Secret'.
Time will prove the truth of what has really happened.
United in prayer
Michael Patrick

Anonymous said...


On December 10, 1925, Our Lady and the Child Jesus appeared to Sister Lucia at Pontevedra, Spain to ask for the First Saturday Devotion: On the first Saturday of five consecutive months, the faithful should confess, receive Holy Communion, recite five decades of the Rosary and meditate for 15 minutes on the mysteries of the Rosary with the intention of making reparation for sins committed against Her Immaculate Heart.

Did the BVM ask that this was to be hidden in a diary??

ps i read socci

my only point is to say that any new revelations pointing to the completion of a russian consecreation are prepared propaganda. and the disturbing facet of this is that the church big wigs are doing it,

J.M.J.

Anonymous said...


The Progressivist Challenge to Fatima

http://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/a014htFatimaShrine.htm#ciappi

..........................................................................................................Conclusion

What will be the consequence of this provocation? It is no small matter to provoke and challenge Our Lady. Scriptures says that the blessing of a father firmly establishes the house of his children, but the curse of a mother uproots its very foundations (Eccles. 3:11). It is a patent counsel to avoid incurring the wrath of a mother. Progressivism is now deliberately provoking the wrath of Our Lady. It should be more cautious lest it find its foundations completely uprooted. It is my opinion and my prayer that a consummate chastisement would be forthcoming soon in response to this latest provocation.

I don’t know what else is necessary for conservatives and traditionalists to open their eyes and see just how evil these persons are at the top of Holy Mother Church.

J.M.J.

Anonymous said...


One of the things that Our Lady told the seers on May 13th. was: “I have come to ask you to come for six months in succession on the 13th day at this same hour. Later on I will tell you who I am and what I want.

Afterwards, I will return here yet a seventh time.”

This is a prophecy to be fulfilled: Our Lady will return to Fatima for a seventh time.

this means the consecration is not done!!

Anthony said...

To Jason R. God bless you. We need to stay resolutely Catholic not Liberal or Progressive but also not Ultra Conservative with all the conspiracy theories they are coming up with.
To Anonymous and J M J. Why would both of you believe a journalist like Antonio Socci over St John Paul 11. We need to trust in the words Jesus said "The gates of Hell will not prevail against my Holy Church". There is no way that St John Paul would collude in such a monumental lie and deception in saying the secret had been revealed in full if it hadn't of been.
I understand where some of these conspiracies originated. If only St John xx111 had of released the secret in 1960 then non of this would of occurred but he evidently decided not to release it which is a puzzle but he was the Pope at the time and he made the call. Now in contrast St John Paul 11 decided to release the secret in 2000. But because of all the conspiracies and all the hype and nonsense that had been written about the Fatima 3rd secret. Many people expected something truly dramatic but in reality the third secret was the consequences of not doing the consecration earlier which remember would of prevented the second world war and the spread of atheistic communism.
What we all need to do is to be faithful Catholics go to church and confession. Pray the rosary and do the first five Saturdays that Our Lady asked us to do. But we must support our Pope and all the clergy. I believe that God is guiding our Church, have faith and trust. Remember Satan wants to divide our church. He has been sowing mistrust and confusion. But he will not succeed. We have the assurance of Jesus himself. "The gates of hell will not prevail against my holy church" It's worth repeating over and over again.

To everyone here have a wonderful Christmas and new year. God bless all of you.

Anthony

Anonymous said...

Anthony
If you read Socci's book he talks about exactly this -- in regard to JP II. He discusses that JP II chose the readings for the Mass itself to tell the people what had been revealed verbally to Lucia (but that many believe that some of the cardinals had told the pope NOT to reveal to the public - so he chose the reading to speak it) -- and one of the readings from that day in June 2000 is in regard to the tail taking down 2/3 of the stars in heaven. (Revelation). Many believe that this is satan pulling down 2/3 of the priests/bishops from where they should be -- loyal to the Church.
This was JP II's way of saying "this is what the words of the Virgin connect with" -- the falling away from those in the Church herself -- an apostasy INSIDE the Church - even from the top. Many believe the Lucia knew (of course) that this is what our Lady SPOKE to her re the words connected to the vision and that it so horrified her that this could happen that she had such a hard time committing it to paper, until our Lady came to her (Jan 3, Jan 4 ?? I forget the year) to help her have the strength to write what had been shown and TOLD to her.
We DID receive the full VISION of the 3rd secret. But there is every good reason to believe that the words connected with it were not released.
Again -- why would our Lady speak to them about each vision BUT NOT THAT PART (the 3rd part, also known as the 3rd secret). That logically doesn't make any sense.
United in prayer
Michael Patrick

Anonymous said...


Fatima stuff

http://www.lepantoinstitute.org/faith-and-life/fatima-noah-and-same-sex-marriage/#comments

Fatima, Noah and Same-Sex ‘Marriage’

Jason R. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jason R. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...



Hello everyone;

Chris here. I finally found what i was referencing regarding being sheep using 911 as an example.
I found a air speed expert and a person using being in the military as points of resistance. I offer into evidence points again to make the argument that we are psycologicaly understood and controlled sheep. I DO NOT POST THIS AS ARGUMENTIVE OR EVEN DESIRING A RESPONSE OR A A DIRECT ATTACK TO AN INDIVIDUAL. I PLEAD WE YOU ALL TO WATCH and begin to understand that we are toys being fed. Our children will be sacrificed to serve the need for power.

see 48;30 min of video #2
now think about these facts when you are told the company line. This is quite a coincidence.

For our aerinautical minds, Again i submit not to disprove or argue; rather to break through the hypnosis
see 1:28:20 of video #1

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YOU ALL

May Our Good Lord hold you in His hands..........and not squeeze.

http://www.luogocomune.net/site/modules/sections/index.php?op=viewarticle&artid=167

chris

Anonymous said...



NOTE 1:34:00 VIDEO 1-EXAMPLES

QUOTE SPEED IS impossible AT SEA LEVEL

TROLLS HAVE AT IT

CHRIS

Anonymous said...


OH YES 1:38:33 VIDEO 1

LIES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The point is this new world order controls everything. and will do anything and in this case perhaps a reason to enter the me

God help us all
'chris

Cetera said...

Chris, go home. You're drunk.

Emmett, can we get these posts cleaned up? Good grief.

Anonymous said...

Whoever pulled the proverbial trigger on 9/11, it was Satan holding the proverbial gun, and ultimately, is anything past that truth very relevant to our faith, or the way we live our day-to-day lives?

Knowing whether it was one evilly inspired group or another evilly inspired group doesn't shake my faith one iota that God allows these things to happen, as He has throughout history. Ultimately even these evil acts become part of His overall plan for our times, not that He condones or wants this evil to occur, but as part of the price that comes with the great gift of freewill that He gave to us. For all we know they may be the part of the birth-pangs to the beginning of the end of ages, or part of a chastisement to call us back to Him in this time of such widespread apostasy.

Maybe the event is in fulfillment of prophecy, of course, depending on where the events that arguably started with the US and Pakistan supported insurgency in Afghanistan against the CCCP which created the Taliban, as well as Al-Qaeda in late 1988, and everything in-between including 9/11, leading to the present growing conflict in the Middle East, ultimately take the world, especially if it is part of a long prophesied Minor Chastisement.

So, in light of this bigger context, why is it so important whether the tragic attacks on Sept. 11th, 2001 were an "inside-job" or not? To me it seems almost irrelevant in the bigger scope of God's plan for our time who exactly the perpetrators were. Throughout history we see the workings of Satan often through the people in government with the greatest power, so much so that if it were not it would probably be the exception rather than the rule, and nothing at all out of the ordinary. Personally, I don't care whether George Bush or Osama bin-Laden were responsible. It's wholly irrelevant to me. That doesn't make me a sheep, I just have a different perspective.

Chris, why is it so very important to you to try to make others precisely believe what you believe, to the point of denigrating them by calling them names like "sheep" if they just happen to have a different opinion, especially on matters that have no bearing on our shared Catholic faith or salvation?

At the very least it is not very charitable, and you can't just throw out insults like that and then write "I DO NOT POST THIS AS ARGUMENTIVE [sic] OR EVEN DESIRING A RESPONSE OR A A DIRECT ATTACK TO AN INDIVIDUAL." That is a complete cop-out. If you don't want to be insulting, don't call people sheep, it's really that simple. Maybe you're the sheep in this scenario? But I don't understand, and that isn't a rhetorical question, I really want to understand why it's so urgently important to you.

Anonymous said...

p.s. Something to consider about where best to place one's focus in these times:

"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either -- but right through every human heart -- and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years.”

― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago 1918-1956

Jason R. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Hey gang!
I think its just important that we all remember that we're all on the SAME team! We are awaiting our Lady's triumph and the massive cleanup that is about to take place.
Its fun and interesting and exciting to discuss and dialogue about whether Medjugorje is real, whether the consecration was FULLY done in 1984, whether the 3rd secret was FULLY revealed or just the vision and not the words of our Lady which more then likely accompanied it etc, whether the Year of Mercy is connected with Our Lord's words to Faustina "If you do not pass through the door of My mercy, you will pass through the door of My Justice", whether 2017 is a particular year of an event which will begin everything that leads to her full triumph, etc.
But in the end we need to realize that -- her message is this; Pray the rosary everyday, adore Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament, go to Mass, be loving and forgiving, consecrate yourselves to our Lady's heart and Jesus' Sacred heart -- and be ready - because it IS all about to hit the fan over the next 20 years.
United in prayer with all of you
Michael Patrick

Anthony said...

To Michael Patrick. In Sister Lucia's diary it explains why Sister Lucia could not write down the 3rd secret. It was because Our lady had asked her not to reveal the secret until Our Lady told her to do so. It was a test to see if Sister Lucia would be obedient. Now what put sister Lucia under pressure was the Bishop had asked her several times to write the secret down and give it to him. Do you see how wrong and inaccurate Antonio Socci has been on this subject and on many others. For example the famous lines that sister Lucia wrote "The dogmas of the faith will always be kept in Portugal ect. Sister Lucia explained that this line is only about Portugal and nothing to do with any apostasy. It is simply that if Portugal does not have legalised abortion or divorce then the dogmas of the faith will always be kept. Again Socci and the late father Gruner and the Remnant and the Fatima Crusade all way off the mark.
Now the explanation of the secret was given to sister Lucia this is stated in her diary but Our Lady told her not to write this down. That was to be kept a secret. Now if sister Lucia did write it down there is no reference to that. But think about the third secret and the vision and the bishop in white going through a ruined city strewn with dead bodies. There is nothing in that vision about apostasy or points to apostasy at the top of the Vatican, it is a vision about destruction and martyrdom. So do you see the foolishness of Socci and the rest because they had the wrong interpretation of "The dogmas of the faith will always be kept in Portugal ect" which they mistakenly connected with the vision and assumed there was a missing text of the secret. When in actual fact there was not.

God bless

Anthony

Anonymous said...

Anthony,

Which Sr. Lucy are we to believe?

Carlos Evaristo records this encounter with Lucy in 1993:

"Our Lady never requested that Russia be specifically mentioned by name,"
said Sister Lucia. "At the time I didn't even know what Russia was. We
thought she was a very wicked woman. What matters is the Pope's intention
and the bishops knew the intention the Pope had was to consecrate Russia."

Or what Lucy said in 1947:

In 'Our Lady of Fatima' (1947), pg. 226; Professor William Thomas Walsh
reports: "Lucy made it plain that Our Lady did not ask for the consecration
of the world to Her Immaculate Heart. What She demanded specifically was the
consecration of Russia."




sam


Anthony said...


To Sam. I'm surprised that you've only come up with two contradictory statements, unfortunately Sister Lucia has been misquoted many times. She has had words attributed to her that she never said. Many things that she has said for example that the secret was revealed and that the consecration was accepted by heaven. (These letters are available for all to read) but all of this has been routinely ignored by Socci, Father Gruner, The Remnant, The Fatima Crusade and the Fatima Centre because they didn't fit in with any of their conspiracy theories.
Lucia's diary published by the nuns from her convent is a good place to start to find the truth.

God Bless

Anthony

Anthony

KP said...

I just saw in the news that there was just a large "sign in the heavens" seen by tons of people, and the FAA didn't know what it was.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/12/22/what-the-heck-is-that-mysterious-bright-light-streaks-across-western-u-s-and-no-one-knows-what-it-is/

Anonymous said...

Anthony
Socci's point is that Sr Lucia wrote down the 3rd secret on 2 occasions. His book points to this -- through a Cardinal (I dont remember his name right now) who was one of John 23rd's right hand men. That there were 2 letters containing the 3rd secret. 1 with the vision. 1 with the message connected to the vision.
Socci believes this as do many others. I think it is very important that Socci was never on the Gruner Fatima bandwagon until things he came across changed his mind about this. We can believe what we like. From my point of view -- it just doesn't make ANY logical sense that our Lady would show her this vision and have NO accompanying words with it, when she DID have words connected to every other vision shown to Lucia. That's all. Simple. It just makes no sense.
United in prayer
Michael Patrick

Mark W said...

KP - It was the remnants of a Russian rocket that was in an unstable orbit.

Anonymous said...

Anthony,

How was Lucy 'misquoted'? How is it you make the connection this came from Gruner et al? I have Walsh's book. You should read it.

AND, find your assertion truthful. How was she 'misquoted'?

Do I need more than one falsehood to prove the point?

sam

Anonymous said...

There is another source that says the consecration was not done as requested and it is the words of the Blessed Virgin to Father Gobbi. She said on March 25, 1984 "Before all I ask it (Consecration) of Pope John Paul II, the first of my beloved sons, who on the occasion of this feast, performed the consecration in a solemn manner, after writing to the bishops of the world and inviting them to do so in union with him. Unfortunately the invitation was not welcomed by all the bishops; particular circumstances have not yet permitted the explicit consecration of Russia which I have requested many times. As I have already told you, this consecration will be made when the bloody events are well on the way to actuality. I bless this courageous act of my Pope in his whish to entrust the world and all the nations to my Immaculate Heart; I receive it with love and gratitude, and because of it I promise to intervene to shorten greatly the hours of the purification, and to lessen the gravity of the trial."

Then she said on May 13, 1987 e. My request that Russia be consecrated to me, by the Pope together with all the bishops, has not been accepted and thus she has spread her errors in every part of the world.

Then she said on June 10, 1987 that during that year (which had been proclaimed a Marian Year) that she very much wanted, 'there be at last carried out my request, made to my daughter, Sister Lucia of Fatima, that Russia be consecrated to me by the Pope together with all the bishops of the world.'

I conclude that it was not done according to her word. Merry Christmas

Anonymous said...

Just another thought.
In Socci's book The Fourth Secret --Cardinal Bertone plays a pivotal role -- because the Vatican (for Heaven only knows what reason) sent him TWICE! to see Sr Lucia at her convent and talk with her. Bertone was a good friend of Socci's for years, but after things came up regarding the release of the 3rd secret, their relationship fell apart -- and it is fairly obvious to see Bertone is the reason -- and he comes off as completely untrustworthy in the events connected with his 2 visits to Lucia and the unbelievable lack of information (and probably truth) released regarding both of his visits to her. This is extremely interesting, especially in light of what just happened with Cardinal Bertone in the last week. See Christopher Ferrara's article "Cardinal Bertone returns $200,000 to the Baby Jesus". Now, it should be noted that Ferrara is adamantly on the side of pre Vatican II and firmly believes the words of the Virgin, in connection with the vision of the 3rd secret, were not revealed. But besides that he is an extremely intelligent writer -- and his article regards a fact that happened (it can be found in other places). Bertone is also the one who I believe was castigated by the Vatican for lavishly spending LOTS of money on redoing his apartment in Rome - in the last 2 years or so. In light of these events, Bertone's role and Socci's take on it are VERY interesting regarding whether or not Lucia's true words regarding anything to do with the consecration of Russia and the FULL release of the 3rd secret were actually revealed to all of us or not.
United in prayer
Michael Patrick

Jason R. said...

For those that believe the full and specific Consecration of Russia is still to come, do you suppose it might be done against on the Feast of the Immaculate Conception? I'm wondering because this year is falls on Good Friday, which makes it a particularly specific one in my consideration; there's a particular prophecy from Yves Dupont's book, many of which are dubious at best, that says that great strife will start in Germany, spreading then to Italy, France and Spain, but that England will suffer the very worst of it at a time "When Out Lady shall lie on Our Lord's lap, Then England with meet with a strange mishap".

To me this seems to reference a Feast Day of Our Lady occurring on or around Good Friday, or possibly Holy Saturday, buttressed on either side by Good Friday or Easter Sunday. The reason I think this is the line I quoted strongly evokes the Pietà in my mind, but a reversal of it where Our Lady is held by Our Lord instead of vice versa, and symbolically as a date, what better representation than for the immovable Feast Day of the Immaculate Conception to fall on the movable Good Friday or Holy Saturday?

If this prophecy refers to when these troubles first begin to occur, maybe the Consecration of Russia would forstall or even eliminate these revolutions/civil wars from occurring, and there is definitely a precedent set for the Consecrations being performed on the Feast of the Immaculate Conception.

When looking at dates since 1970, after which I'm particularly interested as I was born that year on the Feast of the Immaculate Conception, this Feast Day has fallen on Holy Saturday, so with Our Lady laying on the "lap" of Easter Weekend, only twice since I've been alive, in 1978 and 1989, which are interesting to me in that both years I'd consider important in the coming Triumph of the Immaculate Heart, with the election of Pope St. John Paul II in 1978 and the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989 and the subsequent crumbling of the entire Iron Curtain. I took note of these events during these special years long before I knew of the prophecy just because in was my birthday on Good Friday which kept me from really celebrating it on those two years.

The only time the Feast of the Immaculate Conception has fallen on Good Friday since I've been alive has been in 2005, which also seems an important year as it was when JPII's pontificate ended and Benedict XVI's began. And now in 2016 the Feast of the Immaculate Conception again falls on Good Friday, so I wonder if this marks 2016 as a year of some import to the coming Triumph of the Immaculate Heart in the world, or maybe even as a candidate date for a subsequent Consecration again being performed? It seems very unlikely that Pope Francis would do that and aggravate the Orthodox Church, especially when I think Emmett mentioned that the Orthodox Church is having a big conclave of their own in 2016... maybe that conclave in itself is "the" big event to happen in 2016 if my idea that when this Feast Day of Our Lady falls on Easter Weekend it marks the year in which it happens as advancing the cause of the Triumph of Her Immaculate Heart.

Jason R. said...

cont...

For anyone interested, future years where the Feast of the Immaculate Conception falls on either Good Friday or Holy Saturday prior to 2100 are on Holy Saturday, 2062, 2073, and 2084. There are no further Good Fridays in this century when this will occur. For completeness, dates when Our Lady's Feast Day falls right on Easter Sunday are in 2035 and 2046.

While not the exact year, 2035 was in close enough proximity to 2038 that it brought to my mind the alleged prophecy of St. Bridget of Sweden's: "When the feast of St Mark shall fall on Easter, the feast of St Anthony on Pentecost, and that of St John on Corpus Christi, the whole world shall cry 'Woe'"... but then again, if I start thinking about this stuff too much I start seeing connection everywhere where none may be occurring, I guess that's human nature. But then again, when I read the last paragraph of Emmett's book on page 33, the mention of a possible 35 year time span being relevant to some future eschatological event, adding that to the 1999/2000 time frame for the casting down of Satan from Heaven, it makes me wonder...

I don't have the gift of prophecy, though I suspect I may have the gift of discernment, but I have had some unusual things happen in the past that could be seen as predicting future events. The first was in 1978, I was in grade 3, I wrote a short story for my creative writing class where an archaeologist discovered the original stone that Cain used to kill Abel in the country of Iraq, which released an evil spirit into the world. In my story, this is followed by the United States invading Iraq, which leads to a new World War. Keep in mind I was only eight years old and Iraq wasn't exactly a big news-maker in 1978 from what I remember. I forgot all about this story, but my mother kept it as she had a premonition about it for some reason. When talk of invading Iraq started occurring in the Bush administration after 9/11, my mom dug out this old yellowed sheet of paper with my story on it from so long ago and her face was white as a ghost! She said if I had any strange inklings about the future, or dreams, that I should maybe think about writing them down.

I will probably end up with egg on my face when the day comes and goes without anything happening, but I have had a slight sense of foreboding about my upcoming birthday. This might just be because I've been ill and such, or because I've been reading so much about the possibly significance of 2016/2017 with the upcoming centenary of the Fatima apparitions, but it has been on my mind enough that I mentioned to my wife that I have a gut feeling that something may occur on my birthday this upcoming year of some significance... but take that with a huge grain of salt!

p.s. I erased all my previous posts on this thread because I was worried I was clogging it up with overly long postings, so if I'm writing too much please don't be shy about letting me know please, I wouldn't be at all offended and would actually appreciate knowing one way or another because I don't want to make a nuisance of myself.

Jason R. said...

"Bertone is also the one who I believe was castigated by the Vatican for lavishly spending LOTS of money on redoing his apartment in Rome - in the last 2 years or so."

In Cardinal Bertone's defence, this accusation was proven to be a completely spurious one conjured up by La Repubblica meant to wrongly besmirch his reputation, something he is I'm sure getting quite used to! Pope Francis himself came to Cardinal Bertone's defense, not something I'd expect if the Pope was as furious at him as the newpaper reported. It might be a good idea to double-check these tales before repeating them in a public forum; I'm sure none of us want to be contributing to spreading malicious lies about an innocent person.

From Wikipedia: "Luxury apartment

Cardinal Bertone has reportedly angered Pope Francis with his plans to move into a luxury 604-square-metre (6,500 sq ft) apartment. According to the Italian daily La Repubblica, Cardinal Bertone has undertaken the lavish restructure of an apartment in the San Carlo Palace, a building located next door to St. Martha's House.[37] The cardinal is combining two apartments, one measuring 399 square metres (4,300 sq ft) formerly inhabited by the head of the gendarmerie and another flat where a Vatican monsignor lived, the article claimed. Three nuns who worked with him while he was Vatican secretary of state are also to live in his new residence. Cardinal Bertone replied that he was renovating the apartment at his own expense and the apartment is half the size reported. He said: "I am personally grateful to Pope Francis for having called me April 23 to express his solidarity and his disappointment for the media attacks about the apartment, of which he had been informed as soon as the article was published".[38]".

I have to admit, these often sprurious attacks on the top leadership of our Church can't help but remind me of the stories planted by Freemasons in the press during the 19th century to try to discredit the hierarchy as well. The tone is often disturbingly similar, and it undoubtly weakens the Church and its credibility to the outside world in general, which was the exact intent of the covert attacks by Freemasons back then. Just something to keep in mind, and also to verify, verify, verify.

Anonymous said...

Jason R
I agree with you that Freemasonry -- with so many of its members all over - and definitely in the Press and TV -- tell us what they want us to know and how they want us to see many things. Within that idea -- I try and go back to basic logic re things -- because God is simple and does not act in convoluted and complicated ways. Which is why - at least regarding the 3rd secret - that although I believe we HAVE received the full explanation of the vision -- we haven't received the words that accompany it. Again - logic. She SPOKE in connection with each and EVERY vision given the children and later, that lucia saw. But said nothing when they saw the 3rd part of the large vision of July 1917 (the "3rd secret")?? Anyway. Fun to discuss!
So much is happening. An exciting time in our world and our Church and in Salvation history!
United in prayer
Michael Patrick

Jason R. said...

Michael,

I hope my criticism wasn't harsh, it wasn't meant to be... it's just that La Repubblica is a newspaper that at it's founding was the main paper of the Italian Communist Party, and though it's softened it's approach closer to the mainstream by supporting a Socialist viewpoint, it is very, very well known as being the leading voice in criticising the Catholic Church and Catholicism in general at every possible oppurtunity, which is why I don't understand why a obviously strong and devout Catholic would give much credence, if any at all, to the stories it publishes.

The Repubblica has such a history of wild and sensational stories about the Pope, or Cardinals and Archbishops that turn out to be nothing but rumour meant to hurt their reputations and the Church's reputation as well; I just wouldn't believe anything it publishes about the Church because they are exclusively hit-pieces, and inevitably turn out to be fabrications, just as in the case of this supposedly "luxury" apartment of Cardinal Bertone's. They work so hard at discreditting our Faith and our Church that it's just disheartening to see any real Catholic supporting the stories they publish.

Anonymous said...

Jason R. just a friendly note to say that I think you meant to say that you were born on the Feast of the Annunciation (March 25) not the Feast of the Immaculate Conception (December 8) I know of the prophecy ...when Our Lord lies in Our Lady's lap....and I guess we will find out in the new year if there is any special significance.

Jason R. said...

Whoops, my bad, thanks for the correction!

KP said...

Check out this video, but not before keeping in mind what Jesus said in Matthew 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached throughout the world as a witness to all nations, and then the end will come."

https://vimeo.com/113801439

Jason R. said...

That's a very cool interactive map. I wonder if what Jesus said applies to even the smallest tribes, since there are still a number of uncontacted peoples though they usually number only a few hundred people per tribe or less.

I suppose it's just a matter of time before even they become integrated with the rest of the world community, though there are groups that adamantly oppose contact with them because of the potential of diseases which they have no natural immunity to causing problems, as well as for philosophical reason. On the other hand, it seems almost immoral not to help bring stone-age tribes modern medicine, etc., when they still have infant mortality rates >50%.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncontacted_peoples

Anonymous said...

Jason R
You didn't come across as harsh at all. Its all good.
Can you or someone re explain the "when our Lord lies in our Lady's lap" and what is supposed to happen? And on what day does that fall this year? 2016.
Thank.
Merry Christmas!
Michael Patrick

benjoyce said...

Cardinal Bertone is a freemason
so was Sadano
so was Cassarolli
so was Villot

benjoyce said...

Fr. Gobbi MMPriest
The Time of the Great Trial
#486r

"The hour of its great trial has above all come for the Church, because it will be shaken by the lack of faith, obscured by apostasy, wounded by betrayal, abandoned by its children, divide by schisms, possessed and dominated by Freemasonry, turned into fertile soil from which will spring up the wicked tree of the man of iniquity, the Antichrist, who will bring his kingdom into its interior."

Jason R. said...

Hi Michael,

The fully reported prophecy from Yves DuPont's book "Catholic Prophecy: The Coming Chastisement" from 1970 has on page 21 this entry:

"20.1 Old English Prophecy (On a tombstone at the Kirby cemetary in Essex):

When pictures look alive, with movements free,
When ships like fish swim beneath the sea,
When men outstipping birds can soar the sky
Then half the world deep drenched in blood shall die.

In Germany begins a dance,
Which passeth through Italy, Sopain and France.
But England shall pay the piper.

(A 20th-century German prophecy says exactly the same thing: strife will start in Germany, spread to Itlay, France, and Spain, but England will suffer the most.)

When Our Lady shall lie on Our Lord's lap,
Then England will meet with a strange mishap.

(This seems to refer to a Feast of Our Lady occurring between two Feasts of Our Lord, perhaps a Feast of Mary on Easter Saturday by opposition to Good Friday when Our Lord rested on Mary's lap after Cruicifixion)."

Now a lot of the prophecies from DuPnt's book are unsourced and therefore highly suspect, but I though I'd share anyways and post the results of my figuring out when The Feast of the Annunciation fell sometime during Easter weekend in the near past and when next in the future. That the recent years were important as far as the bookends of Pope St. JPII's pontificate plus the year Communism fell I just thought was worth nothing, as well as the 2035 day because of a still un-attached 35 year period from the book of Daniel as discussed in Emmett's book which lines up added onto the 1999/2000 casting down from Heaven of Satan, which is also close to the 2038 date from the St. Bridget of Sweden prophecy, and so on, etc.

Probably something to not put much stock in if any at all, but the dates are curiously significant ones so far as might be related to the coming Triumph of the Immaculate Heart.

Jason R. said...

I don't know enough to comment on Cardinal Bertone in relation to the Fatima apparitions, but I find it really difficult to believe that he is a freemason for the sole fact that he is so routinely and viciously attacked by the likely masonically influenced far-left Italian press precisely because he is one of the most outspoken and stauchest defenders of small-o orthodoxy in the Church in Italy, and was decried by modernists for his "authoritarian" (read: orthodox) administration style because he was the main force making sure the national Catholic bishop's councils in each country didn't start changing things willy-nilly without any oversight from the Vatican.

So, those two things about Cardinal Bertone are at complete odds with each other; that he is attacked to discredit him by freemasons, yet he is a freemason? I'm not buying that for a minute because it's completely irrational, I'd have to see some sources and very compelling first-hand information to believe it. Like I wrote before, poor Cardinal Bertone seems to really get it from both ends, the secular and anti-clerical Italian press and modernists on one hand, and the Fatima conspiracy theorists on the other... he's probably counting down the days until he can be with Our Lord by this point!

DiscerningProphecy said...

Emmett (et al):

I confirm Saint Faustina's cross in the sky. I had a vision about 20 years ago of it, or at least I strongly believe so. Sr. Faustina was told to write what she did. I don't know if she saw it. As for me, I was not given any words or spoken to. It was more of a locution. I saw a sky as black as tar. Then I saw a cross with intense light coming out of holes in the left, right and bottom parts of the cross. No corpus. It pierced through the darkness like laser lights; three beams came from each of the three holes. I was awed by it. To me it meant that the light of Christ is stronger than the darkness. I was comforted by the image. Then, within days, a holy woman gave me a tape about Catholic end time prophecy which spoke about the Diary of Divine Mercy and St. Faustina's entry regarding the cross in the sky. I was completely surprised and awed by the description because I had never heard about her or the Diary before. Consequently, I read the entire Diary and began praying the Chaplet.

I keep a diary of other related locutions and images that I would like to call private revelation. As for this particular image, I don't know when or where it will appear. I don't know if it has to do with the "Warning" or a 3 days of darkness. I continue to pray and discern about it and all prophetic images whether public or private. In the end, I know I am a sinner in need of lots of love and mercy. I hope I can use all of these signs and wonders to draw me closer to Our Lady and Our Lord.

Anonymous said...

Anthony,

Why would you make the general sweeping assumptions/lies (IF you can't back it up with real genuine proof) that all those 'rightwing' reactionaries that you listed are making up conspiratorial theories at every whim? The point that is was trying to make in my first post was to illustrate that the Lucy of her later years conflicted with her earlier years. They do conflict and that is a FACT. Now show us all why you think they don't conflict...



sam

Mark W said...

As to the consecration debate - Honestly, does it really matter? We're all in exactly the same position today as we would be if the consecration were done correctly or incorrectly. It doesn't really change much as far as I can see - from my little personal window on the universe. What it does, however, is open a lot of opportunities to the near-occasion of sin. Re-read some of these conversations and see just how quickly we turn to wrath and pride.

My opinion - worth exactly what you paid for it.

Anonymous said...

I think it does matter that the consecration was done as Our Lady requested or she would not have bothered to ask for it and tell us that it was not done according to her wishes. It seems small to say the words 'we consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary' but Roman pontiff after Roman pontiff did not say the words in union with the Bishops of the world. If it had been done that way in 1984, things would be better than now.

Anonymous said...

on 23 September, 2017 constellations in heaven will in fact fulfill all conditions for the Great Sign of Revelation 12: 1-2__
"And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. She was pregnant and was crying out in birth pains and the agony of giving birth."
Google 23 September 2017 and look at thIs U tube videos featuring computer program "Stellarium" which shows the stars and planets on every date for the past and next few thousand years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1y_hLqVXf4
This guy is not a Catholic, but he is careful and logical and explains the astronomy very well (I wonder is his day job teaching:-) Do not leave this website for another ad that annoyingly pops up first thing. Stay with it, it's fascinating;
My own conclusion is that the "Tribulation" is going to begin about this time, and that we had all have better said our prayers that when faced with state oppression and/or martyrdom we will obtain the grace to endure it.

Irena said...

Phew!!!

Anonymous said...

Merry Christmas!

While I appreciate the description of the Signs of Time, many of them exist for centuries. The generations of faithful expected the End times right after the Ascension of Jesus Christ. Especially acute the situation grew when the Arab Caliphate took ground in what were traditionally Christian lands in Northern Africa, Spain, and ultimately, the Eastern Roman Empire, Byzantium and Constantinople (by Ottomans). Many if not all theologians of that time thought, that is it, the end times, the beast, the antichrist. Now we know they couldn't be possibly right at their time, because....because God allowed much longer time, not because they didn't have their reasons to believe what they wrote in countless theological books popular at their time.


Is it possible, that God's plan is much larger than our limited human view, and includes OTHER STARS SYSTEMS in the multibillion Universe to be baptized too "Go to the entire world/universe/Cosmos" (Marc 16 in Greek). Because Jesus is not Lord only of Earth but also of all visible and invisible Universe. Or he is not lord at all.

If so, where is the necessary time for that mega spread of the Gospel, far beyond the shores of China and Peru? The fact Jesus never came after those shores were reached, comes to tell us our expectations may be as limited as those of the first apostles, who didn't know of the Americas and probably barely heard of China.

I suggest a new branch of theology is needed to be started ASAP to include the Galactic future of the humankind and of the Church of Jesus. (I could offer something in that regard, as imperfect as everything made by human is).

Especially, if a purifying event /Chastisement is about to happen on Earth, that dozens of contemporary mystics said, that does not necessarily constitute a part of the End times. As the Flood and all asteroids fallen on planet earth in geological time weren't part of the end times or signs of imminent coming of the Son of God, or the Universal Judgment Day. God speaks thru various ways, and I cannot help but wonder when looking in the museum of earth history how small we are on the scale of our own planet as time span. Let alone on the scale of the wider Universe created by God. That all doesn't contradict any dogma, so I don't understand the delay the Church leaders (far not only the pope) apparently prefer in their dealing with science and with more logical, more understandable explanations of their elaborated theories. Especially after St John Paul II said Galileo was the right one at his time, not the respected Church official at that time who opposed him. Let the Church never repeat the errors of her own past, if it is going forward to lead God's people tomorrow.

Anonymous said...

The expectation of a Cross in the sky is indeed something notable for Christians, but it may not come for another thousands years. Or, there are local crosses already seen here and there. What I mean, is not there won't be a final definitive Sign of the Cross followed by the sequence ending with the Second Coming. But that might be quite far in the future. God may have other plans for our generation, and we'd better get ready to fulfill them while we still have time. I don't know when or IF a Chastisement event is our way. With or without a such, the Church of Jesus on Earth (in mystical way it is only one) must find strength to transform itself and be capable of leading God's people (in mystical way, also one) towards to future years and generations. On this planet or spreading on others, since we are already in the space age. It is far fetched for some, but it shouldn't, taking into account the unimaginably fast progress of technology that now builds molecular layers (so called 3D printers). Just imagine the level of post WW2. I will skip the details that will concern a more secular blog may be.

But from the Church point of view, it is absolute must to define who are the Martians the pope wants to baptize, who are the Beings of the Universe he spoke of in a homily, do they all have original sins, or some of them "didn't sin as we did" (St Padre Pio). Those are important questions on the incming reports from everywhere that some of those "Aliens" actually landed in secret. You need only the words of ex-president Medvedev on 12/8/2012 available in English on youtube, where he said the full list of residing Aliens ET persons is handed over from president to president together with the nuclear codes, and Russia keeps them safe by special protection of their security forces. One may laugh or ridicule, or otherwise try to prove how big nonsense that is, or to demonize every idea of contact wit Alien ET.

Still, God created them too. And Jesus' salvation is available to them too, if they want it, said the Jesuit astronomer Fr Funes.

Questions that cannot be left aside as not relevant in our time, when we practically work on much advanced machines (computers) and our survival as world civilization of 7++ bln depends on big scale on using even more advanced tech that somehow have reached the planet earth precisely in that period of time. We don't have the luxury of time or doubt, if some of those very populous countries, like Pakistan, India and China, already have nuclear and other weapons and could trigger irreversible changes in the atmosphere. Changes already triggered by the human irresponsible management of God's created environment. The Church must address those issues without further delay, for the sake of the Gospel, of Jesus' salvation of even more souls. If the Church encapsulate itself awaiting glorious martyrdom and end times, it may well find the criticism of Lord Jesus on the other side (afterlife), who will surely find ways to prolong what He himself established.

I surely could say more, but I think it is fairly enough for a blog whose noble goals might be different than what I think as most important. I believe the Church representatives investigate those and other questions for long, and they are not strangers also to my views already posted online for years. Thank you!

Happy New Year 2016 to all!

Anonymous said...

Ah, the Great Deception! Anonymous, or should we call you Delusioned, I think you have been reading too many Protestant conspiracy articles.
Michael Anthony

Anonymous said...

Dear Anonymous, your thoughts on 31 December 2015 at 08:42, 21:19 and 21:43 are similar to my own ponderings, however I rarely delve into the extra-terrestrial possibilities. Having said that, there have always been these few lines from Jesus to Maria Valtorta in ‘The End Times’ that have caught my attention:
August 22, 1943 – Jesus asks, “Why have they never thought that the ‘great Babylon’ is the whole earth? I would really be a small and limited God the Creator had I created only the Earth as an inhabited world! With one pulsation of My will, I gave rise to worlds upon worlds from nothingness and hurled them, like luminous fine dust, into the hugeness of heaven’s vault.
“The earth, which you earthlings are so proud of and so cruel to, is but one of the fine specks of dust rotating in the boundlessness, and not the largest one. Yet it is undoubtedly the most depraved. The millions of worlds which delight your eyes in clear nights teem with lives upon lives upon lives, and God’s perfection will be apparent to you when you can see, with the intellectual sight of the spirit united to God, the marvels of those worlds.”
It has been my understanding from the above that it is only we creatures of Earth that have become separated from the Holy and Divine Will – at the time of the Test in the Garden of Eden – and therefore in need of a Saviour – and baptism – through the Mercy of God who is madly in love with ALL of His Creation.
Karen

Anonymous said...

Socci, Ferrara, Gruner, etc.: all these men are liars and most likely Freemasons. They definitely operate with the same modus operandi as the Freemasons which is one of innuendo and disobedience. They have set themselves up as an anti-Church and have conditioned many otherwise faithful Catholics to accept the lie that it doesn't matter what the legitimate Church authorities (Bertone, Ratzinger, John Paul II, etc.) have to say regarding Fatima - oh no, what matters is what Socci, Ferrara, Gruner, and the false apparition at Medjugorje have to say.

Jason R. said...

I would take anything Maria Valtorta wrote, especially regarding alien beings vis-a-vis their salvation, with a grain of salt. Her writings were condemned for a reason.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous
The next time you leave a message please leave a name -- your post re Socci, Ferrara, etc being Freemasons is absolutely ridiculous. I'm surprised you didn't throw in that they were aliens and that the mothership is on the way. Really. How about reading what they have to say and having a mature conversation here. Time will tell in all of this.
In prayer
Michael Patrick

Emmett O'Regan said...

Jason, I meant to reply to one of your earlier questions, but couldn't find it. From memory it was something along the lines of as to whether anyone who believes that the prophecy of the mark of the beast has come to fulfilment in modern technology, and still uses it anyway, is committing some form of sin. I don't think it is as simple as that. For Catholics, this would have to be a teaching that came from the top down - i.e. something the magisterium has ruled on, before we could have full knowledge that it is sinful. I don't think this will happen until nearer the time when it will be completely evident that cell phone technology and the www is the ultimate fulfilment of this prophecy, and this will only be when the Antichrist has ensured that mobile technology is the only form of commerce in the wake of a huge financial collapse (after the demise of America as a world power). I believe that this future financial collapse will trigger a move towards a cashless society and digital commerce, in a bid for the recovery of the stock markets. It will also be used by the Antichrist as a means of near total mass surveillance and political control, since unlike microchip implants, this technology can be used to directly spy on individuals through their handsets or computers. Once this technology becomes the only form of commerce, it will become abundantly clear what it is, and the Church will be forced into making a ruling. It is then that we will have no other choice other than to shun this technology and face financial ruin. Because let's face it, even now the vast majority of us would face extreme economic hardship if we were forced to eschew modern cell phone technology. It has already become an almost essential way of conducting business. I wouldn't expect anyone to give it up until the Church has ruled on it. And although I believe that this technology has an inherent predilection for encouraging sinful behaviour in the vast majority of individuals, it can also be used in a morally neutral way until the Church teaches that there is no other option than a blanket ban. The morally degrading direction that the use of this technology will take wider society over a prolonged period of time will only become fully apparent in retrospect. I don't know about you, but I can already see the negative direction that this technology is leading us, especially young people - whose lives have become so wrapped up in their phones I fear they will never be able to give them up.

Anonymous said...

Emmett
Great explanation! And it seems like that would flow very easily into that scenario. Also, I've been thinking. I think most of the events coming -- will occur quickly. They will happen, almost every one of them - over a 1 - 3 hour time period. Like earthquakes and tsunami's do. Don't know why, but that was on my mind.
Looking forward to your next article here! Regardless of what its about.
In prayer
Michael Patrick

Anonymous said...

"Michael Patrick,"

The 1984 Consecration was done because the Church has said it was done. Sister Lucia herself said it was done and accepted by Heaven. End of story.

Socci, Gruner, Ferrara, etc. are wrong when it comes to the 1984 Consecration and when it comes to Pope Francis. In Gruner's case I am sorry to say that he went to the grave in a state of grave disobedience regarding the 1984 Consecration. Hopefully Socci, Ferrara and the rest of the wannabe "authorities" will repent of their grave disobedience before they have to give an accounting for having led so many Catholics astray.

The 1984 Conseration was done. The Conversion of Russia is ongoing (much to the consternation of Obama, the Neocons and the rest of the Freemason warmongers) and we await the Triumph which Pope Benedict had prayed would commence by 2017. This should be an exciting year.

God Bless.

Anonymous said...


Russia sells rogue nations missile technology and has added the U.S. to their enemy list.

http://www.reuters.com/article/russia-security-strategy-idUSKBN0UG09Q20160102



https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/exclusive-interview-with-rome-chief-exorcist-fr.-gabriele-amorth
Father Gabriele Amorth, 90, known as the dean of the exorcists, as well as a prolific author, does not believe that what was requested by the Blessed Virgin has, in fact, been fulfilled. He asserts in fact that,


"the Consecration has not yet been made. I was there on March 25 in St. Peter's Square, I was in the front row, practically within touching distance of the Holy Father. John Paul II wanted to consecrate Russia, but his entourage did not, fearing that the Orthodox would be antagonized, and they almost almost thwarted him. Therefore, when His Holiness consecrated the world on his knees, he added a sentence not included in the distributed version that instead said to consecrate "especially those nations of which you yourself have asked for their consecration." So, indirectly, this included Russia. However, a specific consecration has not yet been made. You can always do it. Indeed, it will certainly be done ... ".

Anonymous said...

Obama creates ISIS. Putin bombs ISIS.

Obama kills the Christians of the Middle East via his Muslim proxy armies ISIS and the "Syrian Rebels". Putin kills ISIS and the Syrian Catholics overwhelmingly support Assad and Putin over Obama and the West.

Obama stages a coup in Ukraine which leads to the overthrow of the legitimate government and the deaths of many Ukrainian Berkut and civilians. Victoria Nuland and John McCain travel to Kiev and are pictured shaking hand and smiling with the heads of neo-Nazi militias. Obama and the West then fully support the illegal government of Kiev's genocidal war against the ethnic Russian Christians of the Donbass leading to the murder, rape and torutre of thousands of Christians in eastern Ukraine.

Everywhere you look Obama and the West are killing Christians and suppressing Christians and Putin is defending Christians and traditional Christian values.

I'd say the 1984 Consecration is bearing abudant fruit and this is obvious to anyone who puts their loyalty to the Catholic Church ahead of their loyalty to their political party or country.

Mariana said...

Totally agree with you anon 21:18.

Jason R. said...

Thanks for such a great and indepth answer Emmett (I had erased some of my posts because they were really long and I didn't want to clutter the comments section up too much).

I remember reading somewhere (online I'm sure) that if the 1984 consecration hadn't been performed that a full on nuclear war would have happened the following year in 1985. I can't remember who the locutionist was that said this, so take it for what it's worth, but thinking back on the massive tension between the USA and CCCP at that time (Able Archer 83 came a hair's breadth from starting a nuclear war), it's not anything outside the realm of possibility.

I'm in the camp that believes the conversion of Russia is on-going, but looking at the changes in Russia since 1984 it's hard not to consider those changes thus far miraculous. At the very least the consecration of the world unleashed a certain amount of grace to greatly weaken the dominance of communism in the Eastern Bloc, and China isn't so much communist anymore as a totalitarian dictatorship... they do what they think will work and they call it socialism, to paraphrase Deng Xiaping.

Maybe a subsequent consecration specifically of Russia is still in the offing at some point in the future if it becomes evident that the consecration was only partially successful, but I guess time will tell. I don't think advocacy/pressure/protest groups will have any bearing though if and when that consecration takes place, the Pope and Bishops in communion will make that decision based on the Holy Spirit's prompting I believe rather than any by man.

Mark L said...

Emmett-

Regarding cell phones and the www as the future Mark of the Beast:

I cannot fathom a scenario where the universal Church dogmatically defines the usage of a certain technology as sin when it would essentially condemn nearly her entire flock to total financial ruin and, essentially, starvation.

She would be saying: "You may not eat, buy, have a financial life etc. by using this mandatory technology, otherwise you will be in grave sin. So - starve to death or be condemned for eternity."

Honestly, (and respectfully) this argument, if I am understanding you aright, seems patently absurd, especially in the light of what the Spirit is saying during this Holy Year of Mercy. I think the truth will be much more nuanced. In this regard, I think the Gobbi explanation of Mark of the Beast is much more logical and reasonable.

The web, smartphones and so on are extremely dangerous to the spiritual life. I could write all day about what I'm seeing happening to people's interior lives because of them. But to go as far as you do, I have to say I just can't see your point. I'm surprised at its literalism, given the nature of your other theories, which seem less so.

Respectfully,
Mark L.

p.s. I hope this thread doesn't devolve into a discussion of the necessity of accumulating possessions for a future return to a bartering-only economy, eating only the produce in our back yards and so on - essentially the kind of stuff we see over on the MOG forums.



Anthony said...

To Anonymous, Obama creates Isis Etc.
What you are saying is unfortunately true. I live in England and the biased coverage of the Ukrainian crisis in particular has been very disturbing. If it wasn't for the internet it would be almost impossible to learn all the true facts about the western sponsored coup and the over throw of a democratically elected president. 96 people died in this coup and a former banker is now the president. You couldn't make this up could you.
What you say about the 1984 consecration being done I agree with you. And what we are seeing is the gradual unfolding of Our Lady's promise that her Immaculate Heart will triumph and an era of peace will be granted to the world.
Why do some Catholics have no faith or trust in our holy Catholic Church or the Pope. It's incredible they would rather believe some journalist or some extreme group of people then our Pope. If there is one book you read about Fatima read Lucia's diary that the nuns from Sister Lucia's convent published. And you will see the mistakes that Socci and Father Gruner and The Remnant and Ferrara and others have made.
God Bless
Anthony

Anonymous said...

Time will tell about all of these things. Fun to discuss. -- I heartily agree that our Govt is completely Godless at this point and both parties have become a joke -- they blatantly do whats good for corporations now and do anything to keep their jobs -- Paul Ryan's complete sellout 2 weeks ago and Boehners, months before, show us that the Republican party is the same as the Dem party.
Regarding the Consecration -- I want it to have been done as much as anyone! I think that in some partiality the consecration was accepted -- and that our Lady's words to the 6 visionaries in Medjugorje are coming to fruition -- "In time Russia will be the nation that glorifies God the most" !!! This she said in 1981/1982 when any comment like that would have been seen to be complete lunacy! But as your posts over the last 3 days have shown -- Russia seems to be one of the if not the only country standing up to many of the evils of our world! Heaven knows Obama's defense of America is about as strong as tissue paper.
In regard to A Path into the Gaze of Mary by Sr Lucia. Not sure if that was translated correctly -- or if just the one part about the chastisement of the earthquake and severe flooding (complimented exactly apparently by Pope John Paul II in Fulda Germany) was translanted incorrectly. Many of you respect all of what Emmett chooses to put on this site. Check out the article he has here from 2015 showing that there is a chance that that part was altered possibly. (on purpose?). In regards to Pope Francis. I respect him because God has obviously allowed him to take the seat of St Peter. But I think anyone thinking clearly will have some trouble with how he constantly seems to attack everyone in the hierarchy who stands strong on anything traditional. Like most I kept giving him time to explain -- and defended him. But his closing homily at the end of the synod of the family in October is very hard to defend. We will see where all of this is leading.
United in Prayer
Michael Patrick

Emmett O'Regan said...

Feel free to disagree Mark L, but I don't see how we can get anything else from the text other than that during the reign of the Antichrist, no one will be able to buy or sell without having a tangible "mark". If it was purely spiritual "branding", then it wouldn't exclude anyone from participating in commerce, since no one would be able to see it. A purely spiritual interpretation renders the whole passage meaningless. The Church has clearly taught throughout history that the Antichrist will persecute any Christians who refuse to engage in idolatry by worshiping the Beast and his image. The Church has always demanded throughout history that Christians must resolutely refuse to participate in idolatry, even if they are compelled to do so purely to engage in economic activity. We can find a historical precedent for the mark of the Beast in the Decian persecution, where the Church taught that Christians must bear witness with their very lives if necessary, instead of engaging in worship of the state gods in order to obtain a libellus. The martyrs seen in the Third Secret of Fatima only meet their fate by refusing to submit to the Antichrist. Do you think that the Church will ever change this stance, and say that it will be ok to worship the Antichrist, so long as you don't really mean it, and you are just trying to escape persecution? Have all the martyrs of the Church laid down their lives in vain?

Emmett O'Regan said...

I understand where you're coming from Mark L, in relation to the current status of this technology, and that as yet, it doesn't appear to be quite that level of demonic evil. But I think things will change as this technology advances, and there will come a point in the not so distant future where the Church will quite clearly be able to see that humanity has constructed an idol for itself in the form of modern computer technology. An idol which threatens to usurp the rightful place of God by placing the creation on the throne of the creator. We will see this in a few decades, when computer technology advances to the point of having a "god-like" level of intelligence, it will truly become a false god - the image of the Beast itself.

Mariana said...

I don't disagree with you Emmett on the danger of future robots, but I still believe in Fr Gobbi's analysis. The image of the Beast is here already. Satan takes different forms. He's been doing it since the days of Adam and Eve. The mark is a choice of action we make to either follow God or Satan. Plenty of choices today bring the mark, from abortion to radical Islam. Sin is sin. Today under ISIS men can't buy or sell without professing their loyalty to Allah. Christianity is under attack all over the world already. To worry about a future chip or a future robot as the mark of the beast seems to me not very plausible.

Mark L said...


I think the below reference is an instructive site which discusses how "www" is not equal to "666" in that, in the science of gematria, which is the 'adding up' of the letter values, "666" is not "6" and "6" and "6" but rather, "six hundred and sixty six:"

http://www.av1611.org/666/www_666.html

Furthermore, in reading the scripture passages, the "receiving of the mark" seems to follow the worshiping of the Beast, that is, they will worship the Beast and willingly receive his mark. I can't conceive of a scenario where we all happen to be using or 'receiving' something which turns out to be the future Mark of the Beast, which then essentially is an "aha! Got you!" kind of experience, an entrapment.

We have seen past cases of thinking in this sort of reversal, where people were afraid they were already somehow in possession of the Mark of the Beast without even being aware of it - well meaning Christians, even. So people went through their homes to throw things out which they thought snuck in on them unawares. Recall the fear over the Proctor and Gamble symbol.

If we accept for a moment a literal interpretation theory, the Mark will have to entail an explicit acceptance of something which shows the flat-out denial of Jesus Christ in the flesh and the worship of His enemy. I don't think it will require a rejection of an existing technology increasingly necessary for our daily lives. The technology in and of itself is morally neutral. This kind of entrapment thinking and fear does not seem worthy of the followers of the Good Shepherd.

'Do not fear those who can destroy the flesh but not harm the soul.' They can force a chip under my skin but that doesn't mean I will deny that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and that I worship Him.

Mark L.

Jason R. said...

I tend to think Emmett is on the right track with e-Commerce being related to them mark. Further to that, I even feel fairly confident that the actual mark will be an IPv6 address that every person on Earth could be assigned at birth, there are many more than enough of them to go around, and I've heard dozens of former computer science professors as well as people in industry (I work in IT for a major telecommunications company) advocate for the use of IPv6 static IP addressing that stays forever with a particular client rather than using dynamic addressing as with IPv4 because the ranges aren't big enough to cover each individual customer, as well as using that same IPv6 address for everything from birth certificates to bank accounts to social insurance/security to health card numbers (for countries like Canada with universal health coverage).

From a purely practical point-of-view it makes complete sense, especially in a time where identity theft/fraud is reaching into the trillions of dollars each year in financial losses, but from a scriptural view-point, we have never before in history had (1) the technological ability or (2) a ready and standardized medium i.e. IPv6 numbers that would allow for such an exact scenario as outlined in Revelation where each person would be assigned a number that would be absolutely essential for every imaginable faculty of their life in interacting with any other person or the outside world in general. I think the only question remaining is how accepting such a number would be tied directly to repudiating the Holy Spirit, but such historical precedents as the Oath of Personal Loyalty that members of the German armed forces had to swear specifically to Adolf Hitler (which made it difficult for some higher-ups to be more active in the numerous attempts to overthrow or assassinate him later on) might be instructive in that; maybe a formal oath would be required at some point before being assigned an IPv6 ID, or something similar to an IPv6 address where you repudiate Christianity and/or embrace Secular Humanism, etc.

These types of oaths are still pretty common.... when my wife became a Canadian citizen three years ago she had to swear an oath of personal loyalty to Queen Elizabeth II, though being the good soon-to-be dual citizen of the Republic of Ireland she said she said it with her fingers crossed behind her back and her tongue placed firmly in her cheek, haha.

I guess the point being is that if we are required to accept a universal identifier to have internet access, which in turn may authorize use of every other individual facet of trade, commerce, health care, etc., it would probably come at a time where a twinned repudiation of Christianity, or maybe religion in general, and an oath of loyalty to the Beast with an acknowledgement of his supremacy of a living god as a co-requisite. Or maybe the use of an individual universal identifier like an IPv6 address would come first, be in use for a generation or two so that people become reliant on it, as we already are with the burgeoning e-Economy, and then the oath tied to it's continued availability would come into play, when bartering, or even the use of hard currency is nothing but a distant memory. As I wrote above, anyone that attends a citizenship ceremony at least in Commonwealth countries, or swearing in of new elected officials, might be very surprised at the wording of the personal oath of loyalty to the sovereign.

Jason R. said...

p.s. With many nations facing near failed-nation status e.g. Mexico, the push for a paperless monetary system is going to get stronger and stronger as a way of starving criminal enterprise of their medium of exchange. In Sweden already most businesses right down to local corner stores no longer accept cash, so this could be more right around the corner than we think. And, again, on the surface it seems like a completely rational and good idea: with greater scrutiny, bitcoins notwithstanding although they are a lot less anonymous than many would have you believe, organized crime, and many other criminal enterprises, as well as tax-evaders, merchants selling stuff "off the books" to customers to avoid paying sales tax, all of these things would be made impossible under a cashless society where every transaction of any sort would need to be authorized using a single unique electronic identifier for every person on the planet. It's actually a very good idea, other than the opportunities it would present to a totalitarian world gov't as a means of controlling the masses.

Emmett O'Regan said...

Thanks for sharing this Jason, I think this is important. Please do us all a favour and don't delete your comments!
I'm familiar with that old chestnut Mark L, in that www is not 666 (six hundred and sixty six), but rather three sixes 6-6-6. This fails to take into account that there is a scholarly consensus that it is exactly in the threefold repetition of sixes that the number 666 finds its primary symbolic value in the Apocalypse. Just as 777 symbolizes the Holy Trinity and the work of creation in seven days, 666 falls short of this perfection and is the "number of man", since man was created on the sixth day. It is almost certain that the Apostle John would have been aware that the numerical value of the name Jesus in Greek isopsephy was 888 - a threefold repetition of eights. So the symbolism of the threefold repetition of sixes in this number is actually the primary focus of the author of the Apocalypse, rather than the actual number 666 itself, which is devoid of any symbolism other than this recurrence of the number 6. The threefold repetition of the number 6 is intended to denote the unholy trinity, as opposed to the sevenfold nature of the Holy Trinity.
So the uniformity of the letters www corresponding to the value of the Hebrew numeral six is if anything, highlighting this symbolism even further.
As to your "entrapment" criticism, I can see your point. But this is isn't exactly what I'm arguing. I'm not suggesting that anyone can be considered guilty for unwittingly accepting this technology into their lives. And I agree that for any guilt to be incurred, there would have to be an outward repudiation of Christ by using it - which is certainly not the case in our own day. But the text itself does explicitly state that at least initially, all the inhabitants of the earth would be *deceived* into receiving the "mark": "he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image". To me, there are two stages to the fulfilment of this prophecy. The first is when absolutely everyone - Christians included, are deceived into embracing the "mark" as part of their everyday lives: "Also it causes *all*, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name" (Rev 13:16-17). There can be no guilt here on anyone's behalf, since there is no knowledge of any wrong-doing, and subsequently no outward denial of Christ in using it. The second stage will take place during the age of the Antichrist, when the use of this technology will involve an outright denial of Christ in full knowledge of those who embrace it. As Jason suggests, access to the internet in the future will most likely be limited to those with a personal identifier, in order for greater ease of mass surveillance - tracking income and expenditure, etc. for crime prevention and taxation purposes. During the age of the Antichrist, access to this technology will most likely be restricted to those who make some form of public act of swearing allegiance to the Antichrist, which will involve the rejection of Christ. Say for example if a massive worldwide economic collapse saw a total political and economic paradigm shift towards atheistic communism and a cashless economic system. It isn't too difficult to image that a totalitarian communist state would demand the denial the Christian faith in order for access to any form of privileges, including access to the internet in order to engage in commerce. It is then that people will be forced to making a firm choice, and either deny Christ by paying homage to the Antichrist, or standing firm in the faith and enduring persecution. It is at this stage, after the fall of "Babylon", that the Church will be forced into making a statement which will sound very familiar to the words of the Apocalypse:

Emmett O'Regan said...

"Another angel, a second, followed, saying, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, she who made all nations drink the wine of the passion of her sexual immorality.”
And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”
Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus."
(Rev 14:8-12)

Mark L said...


A fascinating and vital rebuttal, gentlemen, thank you so much for penning it. I take it as a work of mercy ("instruct the ignorant").

Emmett your two-stage hypothesis as well as your reference to that essential passage in Revelation 13.16-17 ("all") which I had forgotten, has given me serious pause. I need to go read, study and ponder all these things. Chilling.

I'm a software engineer by trade and know all about IP addresses. From that perspective I could see the value in Jason's supposition, certainly. Already today I have coworkers lobbying for such a thing, especially the Millennials. They *want* a universal number given to everyone, for things like healthcare, voting and so forth.

I have to say, many among the Millennial generation worry me, not only in their pursuit of technology for its own sake but their willingness to go to great extremes to be embraced by it, coddled by it, directed by it. So if you fellows are right, they are ripe for picking. The addiction to the technology for its own sake, the well-studied effects it is having on the brain, our social lives, the brains of babies whose parents are caught up in it..these things have profound implications for the future of our society, eschatological connotations aside.

And the timing could align perfectly, couldn't it. The older generations will be dying off, those who are more reticent and wary.

Mark L.



Mark W said...

Well, I suspect we won't have to wait long either way. Darth Soros was out today with a column saying that we're repeating the economic crisis of 2008. I don't think it will shift into high-gear until late summer or early autumn. There was one economist I saw a couple of days ago that said the EU will likely go to full e-commerce before the end of the year, and do away with paper currency. Economically speaking, I don't see how we make it into 2017 without a major economic event.

As you watch the news over the next six months, listen for these things: Derivatives market, SDR's or Special Drawing Rights, and the term "no offer" in the gold or silver markets. The derivatives market is between $1 and $4 quadrillion dollars worth of debt - No one even really knows how big it is. Derivatives will likely follow a domino effect. When they start to collapse, it will accelerate of it's own momentum. SDR's are the IMF's last weapon against currency collapse. When you hear about SDR's, it means that the powers behind the governments are using their last stick of dynamite. And a no-offer in the gold or silver market means that those markets no longer have sellers at any price, so the sellers think we've reached the end and are hanging onto their gold/silver for the duration. The gold/silver no-offer could trigger the derivatives collapse too, given that a lot of gold is worthless derivative paper.

When you hear these terms talked about more often, then you'll know that we're very near the end economically.


Oh, and if you don't know who Darth Soros is:

http://thepeoplescube.com/peoples-blog/george-soros-vs-glenn-beck-t6400.html

Anthony said...

To Michael Patrick,
Yes you are right there was a mistranslation in the English version of A Path Under Mary's Gaze. Why that happened I think it was just a mistake but I know others like Mr Ferrara like to find conspiracies in everything. But the diary was originally written in Portuguese and an organisation called Britain Needs Fatima did a leaflet with the correct translation in it this is what Our lady said to Lucia about writing out the 3rd secret for the Bishop. " Be at peace and write what they ask, but not it's meaning that has been explained to you".

Our Lady then instructed her to place what she had written in a sealed envelope, on the outside of which should be written "Only to be opened in 1960".
Sister Lucia then writes in her diary about a vision she has. " I felt my spirit filled by a mystery of light that is God and in him I saw and heard: The point of the lance, like a flame that detaches itself, touched the axis of the earth. It shakes: the mountains, cities, towns and villages are buried with there inhabitants. The sea, the rivers and the clouds overrun their boundaries: they overflow flooding and sweeping away countless houses and people. It is the purification of the world immersed in sin. Hatred, ambition provoke the destructive war!" " In time, only one Faith, only one Baptism, only one Holy Catholic and Apostolic church". The account of this vision can be found on pages 266-267.
It's clear that the explanation of the 3rd secret was to be kept a secret. Only the vision was to be written down.

God bless
Anthony

Jason R. said...

Mark L., I've found the exact same thing! All the younger fellas (and some gals) that I work with are very excited about the prospect of having one electronic identifier for absolutely everything not just out of the sake of convenience, but more because of the novelty of it and as a general unthinking embrace of anything "new" in the world of technology. It's the same mentality that has them buying each new iteration of their favourite smartphones or tablets as soon as they're available even if they have barely any new "bells & whistles" compared to what they're already using.

I know every generation has a tendency to judge the one that comes after rather harshly, but it really does seem to me that personal electronics are somewhat unique in the blind and rampant consumerism and lust for novelty that they trigger in people my daughter's age (mid-20s). Without getting into spiritual aspects (talking about religion at work is right in our code of conduct as being forbidden with the punishment being up to termination, sadly) I've talked about the potential pitfalls of using permanent static IPs attached to one individual, or one device, as far as how much easier it would make overreaching gov't surveillance possible in totalitarian countries, but even in democratic ones as well, but they think I'm just old and paranoid. I guess my perspective may be a little paranoid, but my father and his family were an escapees from East Germany so he instilled in me a healthy amount of suspicion about the extent that a group like the Staatssicherheit will go to knowing everything about everyone.

I may have written this before, but in 1961 he was sent a letter to the little town in Saskatchewan where he lived at the time from the GDR's Nationale Volksarmee letting him know that since he didn't show up for his mandatory military service that he was henceforth considered a deserter! They had escaped through Hungary to Austria in 1948 before coming to Canada when he was only 7 years old in 1948, yet the East German gov't still went to the trouble of sending this threatening letter just to intimidate and harass him. I know this anecdote is off-topic but I thought it was a good illustration of the power a determined government had back then to track former citizens world-wide 55 years ago, so just think of what they'd be capable of if every single person on the planet had a single identification code assigned to them at birth; the implications are down-right chilling, yet most Millennials I know think any worries or concerns over the potential for abuse is outlandish.

p.s. Thanks Emmett for letting me know that it's OK to have long and sometimes rambling posts, I won't do any more pruning in the future, haha.

Anonymous said...

Anthony
Thank you for the info re Britian needs Fatima (with how things are going we need our Lady's constant motherly intercession like never before!). I don't consider myself a conspiracy theorist (I say that just as a statement not because I think it was implied). I say this because I accepted the Church's explanation in 2000. But upon reading Socci's book I found many questions. Now, for those who may think Socci is lying -- and it is Bertone who is telling the truth re a written message of the 3rd secret-- My two big questions come because
1) Why were there 2 envelopes?
2) Why did Bertone, at that time a good friend of Socci, refuse to meet and discuss things with him. I find this to be very very odd. And then Bertone writes a book that even other journalists found to be kind of a joke in regard to how he answers the questions put toward him regarding all this.
And connected to this - I, like anyone else, using common sense -- find Sodano's explanation that all of the events of the 3rd secret are held within the time of 1917 - 2000, laughable. It obviously has not fully unfolded.
Regardless -- one thing is for sure -- major events are on their way -- more then likely occurring between 2016 - 2040 -- and the renewal of the world and the Church through this purification.
Let each one of us have the rosaries always in our hands to assist our Lady and to save souls (including our own!)
Michael Patrick

Anonymous said...

Michael Patrick, your post prompted me to read Emmett's post http://unveilingtheapocalypse.blogspot.com/2014/09/the-new-fatima-revelation-in-closer.html I didn't know (until reading his post) that Sister Lucia contacted Pope John Paul II after the attack on the world trade center. Pure speculation on my part, but she possibly signaled to him that the tribulation with Islam was beginning....Islam's goals of achieving a caliphate through jihad, martyrdom, freemasonry, etc. So much more has been revealed to us in 2016 than in 2000. Why would I include freemasonry in with jihad and martyrdom? In a book by a former mason, Masonry Unmasked: An Insider reveals the secrets of the lodge, John Salza stated that freemasons in the upper orders must say their oaths on a Koran. Doesn't that speak a little to us about the signs of the times?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous, etc
My point, in 98% of my posts in regard to Sr Lucia, Socci, Ferrara, Medjugore etc -- is to say, well, is to say A LOT is going on -- on many fronts. And that one should at least be open to reading about these various things and pondering them. If they are nonsense then it usually shows itself very clearly - more or less - and fairly quickly. Ferrara is a little over the top, yes, but one cannot deny that most of the time he points out things that really can't be argued and give one thought. (and he does it with some humor).
The same can be said about Socci and with the apparitions in Medjugorje.
The danger lies in going hog wild with anyone of them on things - on either side, without thought and prayer -- and each person should come to their own conclusion after reading and praying. My point? Medjugorje. Nothing but good fruits for 35 years, so much so that the Vatican studied it from 2010 - 2014 (we are all currently awaiting P. Francis' decision - at this point -- most believe that a "final" ruling will not occur until A) Mary speaks heresy (which hasnt happened yet) or B) Until the 10 secrets occur, thus proving the apparitions either absolutely true or false. So one, to be fair, should ponder that A) its not crazy at all that our Mother would be with us in a time when Satan is blatantly running rampant -- and we know from Fatima that "in the end, her Immaculate heart triumphs" -- so "secrets" or events occurring in our world that assist this final outcome, are not crazy at all. It actually makes sense.
Regarding Socci -- his book The Fourth Secret is an excellent read. One cannot deny he has been (was) a very respected journalist for many, many years and was close friends with various players in his book. As an adult, one needs to ask -- what could cause a man who does nothing but investigate things to come to the conclusions he comes to -- and with fairly good explanation as to why. But again. One should not be afraid to calmly ready and discuss all sides -- time will tell the truth of all of these things.
United in prayer
Michael Patrick

Anonymous said...

Speaking of Ferrara!

See the upcoming debate between Chris Ferrara and Mark Shea. A shameless plug , yes but a good plug one at that.

http://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/remnant-television/item/2255-new-from-remnant-tv-the-great-debate-of-2016

Jason R. said...



I've found "By What Authority?" by Mark Shea (as well as Steve Ray's "Crossing the Tiber") super, incredibly, helpful in discussing apologetics with Evangelical friends of mine, both in dispelling myths about Catholicism that they hold as well as how the real history of the unbroken authority the Catholic Church has enjoyed and been acknowledged as universally. I even managed converting one of my childhood friends back to Catholicism after 30 years spent as an Evangelical, including going to Bible School and whose profession was as a sound engineer for producing Christian Contemporary Music albums, primarily from the info I got from "By What Authority".

Mark Shea's blog is one of the one's I check out once every couple of months or so at least (http://www.patheos.com/blogs/markshea/). He doesn't seem to be in opposition to anything in the Catechism or any encyclicals... he doesn't support any of those things like women priests, abortion, divorce, questioning the True Presence, any of those things that I think of when I think schismatic or "cafeteria" Catholic, so waht makes him a neo-Catholic? Does neo-Catholic mean you're considered a Modernist, or is it some other label that's supposed to have a derogatory implication to it?

But, in any case, thank you for the link to the debate; it looks like it will be really interesting. But I'm still interested why Mark Shea is called a "neo-Catholic" and what that means; it doesn't sound like something someone would want to aspire to, as opposed to just plain "Catholic", or maybe it just indicated that he is a convert to Catholicism rather than being born into the faith?

Anonymous said...

It should be a barn burner of sorts. It's put on by a catholic group called 'Argument of the Month' club which I would love to be a part of cuz it sounds like fun and stimulating. Shea debated Michael Voris a couple years ago at that venue and many thought Shea won that one. I would LOVE to see one between Shea and Robert Sungenis. Now that would be a great show.


Anonymous said...

To keep the tangent going...

"Argument of the Month" is such a solid apostolate! Helps makes those Minnesota winters a little more ...tolerable.



Mark W said...

Shea himself describes neo-Catholic as: "A Catholic whose enthusiasms and opinions are mostly defined by John Paul II's papacy."

But at the same time he describes it as a malleable definition.

Shea also says that neo-Catholics will agree with most of these points, and traditionalists (like Voris) will disagree with most:

1.The Second Vatican Council was a positively good thing. Its documents are "marching orders for the new millennium". The pastoral strategy given by Gaudium et Spes is authoritative and, more importantly, correct. The problems in the Church following the council are not the fault of the conciliar documents themselves, but can be blamed on misinterpretation, misimplementation, or ignorance of them.

2.The Bugninine liturgical reform was a positively good thing. The problems following the promulgation of the new Mass are not the fault of the content, form or circumstances of origin of the new Mass itself, but can be blamed on liturgical abuse at the diocesan and parochial level. When celebrated reverently, there is "nothing illegitimate or doctrinally inexact" about the reformed liturgy.

3.The ecclesiastical tradition of the Church has no permanent objective content. All "little T" traditions can and should be modified according to perceived pastoral or evangelical expediency.

4.The pope can and should positivistically innovate in matters of liturgy and devotion.

5.Ecumenism is a positively good thing and a "solemn and binding duty" on all believers.

6.Modern philosophical (e.g. phenomenology), artistic, and cultural (e.g. World Youth Day) forms can and should be used as vehicles for the Gospel, and there is nothing intrinsically and qualitatively superior about the forms used by the Church in the past (e.g. Thomism, Gothic architecture).

7.The 1992 Catechism is a "sure guide" to the faith, and can be considered a final authority on any matter it addresses.

8.Disagreement with the above statements puts a Catholic in danger of "private judgment", "being more Catholic than the pope" or "Protestant mentality".

Now, in the interest of full disclosure, I've met Mark Shea once - spent most of a weekend with him - and we exchanged e-mails quite often once-upon-a-time. We had something of a falling out (and to be honest, I doubt very much that he even remembers me...he knows many people, I know few bloggers). I don't care fore his writings as they are often bombastic and callous, but in person he seems like a good guy.

But the problem with definitions like the one above is...well...me. I disagree with most of the above points, so by Shea's definition I'm a traditionalist. But I've also gone to a traditionalist parish and been pretty unwelcomed, and had lunch with a traditionalist that later blasted me as a liberal on his blog. So, I seem to be hated by both camps, which perhaps means I'm ultimately doing something right.

Mark W said...

So...

As to Shea's points above:

1. This is such a complex and convoluted subject that it can't be defined in just a sentence or two.

2. Disagree strongly. Comparing the Mass of Thomas Cranmer to the Novus Ordo shows the distinctly Protestant origins.

3. I don't technically disagree with this, but I do think it's quite risky to paint with too broad a brush.

4. No.

5. Within the realm of Catholicism being the one form of worship that most closely resembles what God would want, ok. But squishy ecumenism where all roads lead to God is dangerous. Shea doesn't distinguish.

6. See answer to number 5 above.

7. I don't disagree here, but recognize that it's influenced by the liturgical reforms of the 1960's. The CCC should not be taken to the exclusion of, say, Sacrosanctum Concilium which says that Latin is the language of the liturgy.

8. "In danger of..." ok. But there are equal or greater dangers on the neo-Catholic side that are not to be ignored either.

So, I disagree with a lot of neo stuff, but my reading and appreciation of, for instance, some of von Balthasar's work makes a traditionalist's eyes bleed.

neo Catholics and traditionalists are sharp set against one another most of the time. But if a Jesuit or a liberal walks into the room, then the-enemy-of-my-enemy-is-my-friend effect kicks in. But Shea has really slammed traditionalists many times, which is why I quit reading his stuff. Yes, his books are good, but his blog is something I can do without.

In general terms, it's all an enormous waste of time to define things like this.

Anonymous said...

Mark W

Which is why those two would make it an interesting show in my opinion. Waste of time? No to some. There I would disagree with you. Seeing what's going on in the church today, not a waste of time at all.

Anonymous said...

Thanks a bunch for the well thought-out (and well-written) response Mark W., I appreciate it.

Jason R. said...

Whoops, forgot to sign the post above.

Mark L said...


CRISPR - the gene editing technique sweeping the labs of the world, giving rapid and unprecedented power..

This article in Nature ought to raise some of our collective eyebrows in the eschatological realm.

http://www.nature.com/news/crispr-the-disruptor-1.17673


We already see things unwinding astonishingly fast in Britain with its use in embryos.

Mark L.

Jason R. said...

Yikes, that article was disturbing! With "breakthroughs" like this that simplify (and make cheaper) experimentation on embryos I think it's probably just a matter of time before the experimentation goes beyond embryos (not that that isn't bad enough!) and extend to experimentation on lab-grown fully developed human beings.

I could see, maybe even in our own lifetimes, wealthy or powerful individuals having a full-blown clone (or series of clones) produced of themselves for the sole purpose of getting a new/younger kidney, or heart, or liver, etc. if ever needed so they have a perfect match of the organ to be transplanted, genetically speaking.

It sounds like the stuff of dystonian science fiction, but thinking of just in my 45 years how the ethical bar has been lowered so much in this area that, as horrendous of an idea that it is, I could see cloning for organ harvesting happening... who knows, if someone had enough money and enough of a lack of ethics maybe it's happening already.

Jason R. said...

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/jan/15/easter-justin-welby-christian-attempt-fix-date

Should this be considered a good thing, bad thing, or neutral? I tend to see it as a positive as it could be one more step towards healing the East-West schism, but I'm interested in what others think about changing the way we determine the date of Easter Sunday.

Mark W said...

I consider it a good thing but for the fact that the Anglicans are involved in a leadership role. It could be done in half the time otherwise.

Mark W said...

Going back to the subject of the previous post (I'm putting it here as people might be more likely to see it).

I downloaded a copy of Stellarium myself. It's a fascinating program.

On November 20th of this year, Jupiter will be in Virgo. On this particular date, it enters the "womb" of the virgin. This just happens to take place at 7:07am central time in the U.S. By "womb", I'm looking at the line between the stars Spica and Porrima. At 7:07am in my time zone, Jupiter touches that line for the first time.

Adding the time time differences, this is just after 3:00pm Jerusalem time.

What time did Christ die on the Cross?

November 20th is also the day that the Year of Mercy concludes.

Anonymous said...

Jason R & Mark W, regarding fixing the date of Easter, I encourage you to check this post at Rotate Caeli: http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/a-fixed-unified-easter-not-so-fast-part.html. It certainly helped to clear up my misgivings! MH

Jason R. said...

Thanks for the link, that article was interesting. About half my cousins on my mom's side of the family are Ukrainian Catholic, so I was pretty used to getting to celebrate Christmas twice every year, but I could see the writer's point that things could get out of hand with too many different options for when a feast day can be celebrated by Catholics, it would cause confusion.

For any interested, there is a confrontation developing in Alberta over the new social democratic gov't trying t mandate gay-straight alliances and other things of that nature in all schools, including the Separate School divisions (i.e. the Catholic schools), and other related rules such as it would be illegal for a school to advise parents of anything to do with their children's sexual orientation or any related behaviors. Here's the article:

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/edmonton-archbishop-we-cannot-adopt-ndps-gender-mandate-for-catholic-school

Catholic/Separate schools are a very important part of our educational system for historical reasons; before Confederation in 1867, Quebec was worried about access to a Catholic education in any potential new provinces with Francophones in a minority.

When we got our new Constitution in the 80s, the right to Catholic schools that are paid out of our municipal property tax (e.g. because my girls go to Catholic schools, all my tax dollars for education go to the Separate School Division instead of the Public one)was enshrined in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, Section 29 (which incidentally makes it against the law for any government to collect tax to be put towards any school with a religious curriculum *except* Catholics and Protestants. So publicly-funded Catholic schools is a very big deal here.

With the Alberta bishops refusing to implement the new gov't's law I'm sure a court case will follow that will make its way to our Supreme Court. The court unfortunately is very secularly focused right now, so if they rule against the Church/Separate Schools it would be a huge constitutional problem; I'm sure the bishops will see the entire Catholic school system across Canada shut down rather than actively promote things that are in violation of the Catechism.

I thought people may be interested in this story because the case could even evolve along its way to the Supreme Court (which would probably take approx. 4 or 5 years to make its way there) to become an issue of whether or not Catholic teachings which regard homosexual acts as sinful could be considered hate speech under some of the Federal legislation related to that.

Once the court rules, Canada could be the first country where the Catholic Catechism could be banned just as some books on Holocaust denial are (Canada doesn't have the same guarantee of free speech as the USA, not do we have an Establishment Clause, so there's official no separation of church and state here either).

I know that sound hard to believe, but with some of the ruling of our Supreme Court over the last 10 years, I think it is very plausible that Church teachings on homosexual acts could be outlawed within the next 4 or 5 or 6 years.

Anonymous said...

It will be very interesting to see how things play out with Pope Francis' Apostolic Exhortation stemming from the Synod on the Family -- and the meeting in Sweden to 'celebrate' the 500 yr anniversary of Luther -- As well -- any thoughts on Zika being part of or a foreshadowing of the sickness which would strike children and leave mother's in tears?
Prayer
Michael Patrick

Mark W said...

Michael Patrick,

I did see today where they're warning pregnant women to stay away from Rio. Could be.

I can't believe we're going to celebrate Reformation Day. Maybe the Pope will nail his 95 theses on the door of the local cathedral. With the world in which we live today, I don't think it would surprise me.

MarkW

Mark W said...

Jason R,

You're in Alberta? Hard times there. I work for an oil company. I found out last week that I'm getting laid off at the end of June (or earlier, if the company needs my salary more than I do). Great News - I'm middle aged and get to go job hunting at the start of the new Great Depression! What fun!

MarkW

Anonymous said...

Mark W -- and all
Yes -- the world economy is starting to fix itself from the lie its been living for the last 8 years -- with all of the pumped in monies -- as the American debt has soared!
Caterpillar just gave another down year forecast -- and usually they are a clear harbinger of what is coming for the world economy. I know this may be off topic (above) but it fits in to some degree. Most of the world lives without God now (the Western nations - governments - have all but left Him, while they lie and do all they can to keep the party going. Trump winning in the poles for 5 straight months clearly shows that people have had enough of those in Government. God is leaving us to our own devices. We live in a world that calls "good evil and evil is good" - Planned Parenthood is selling baby parts (after murdering the babies first) and its not them getting indicted -- its the filmakers who exposed their satanic work. I'm ready whenever the Lord is for Him to start the cleanup in a big way.
Looking forward to Emmetts next article!
United in prayer
Michael Patrick

Anonymous said...

This thread would not be complete without this photo which you have all probably seen.

http://www.sign.org/videos/a-stunning-sunrise

Jason R. said...

MarkW,

No, my eldest daughter who's 23 lives in Edmonton though, working as a waitress right now, and she's even feeling the pinch with tips all but disappearing. I live next door in Saskatchewan, but we rely a lot on oil & gas as well (plus, the market is down for our other two big resources as well, potash and uranium). The oil we have is harder to extract shale and porous rock oil (part of the same Bakken Formation that North Dakoda has).

My grandpa came into some money unexpectedly during the 30s and bought back all the mineral and surface rights on his farm plus on another 11 sections of land, so its going to be a double-whammy for my family because I big part of our budget is from the royalty cheques still as a part of my grandparent's estate.

It is truly grim... my entire province is just over a million people, and there are expected to be 50 to 60k layoffs, so 5 to 6% of our workers losing their jobs, and that isn't even taking into account all the job losses in spin off sectors like hotels/rentals/housing, car dealerships, etc. Our average provincial wage dropped by more than a full 1%... in just the last month! People are very worried in Alberta especially because most oil-related workers are almost about to run out of Employment Insurance.

Canada's economy has always had a one-two punch sort of, in that when oil prices are high, our dollar rises, and we are a petrol economy. When commodities prices drop, so does our dollar, at which time our big manufacturing sector takes advantage of our low dollar relative to the USD and the factories start going full-tile in Ontario and Quebec, and we become primarily an exported good economy.

The big problem right now though is that our dollar is under 70 cents US, so inflation is going through the roof on imported food, etc., and the factories in Ontario and Quebec are largely all gone. In former days, when oil drove the Canadian dollar up, the federal government would step in and help prop up the lagging manufacturing base knowing that their turn would come around again when the cycle of commodities prices hit a bear market again. But our former Prime Minister in all his wisdom decided this time to let the manufacturing sector whither away, so it's not just a matter of calling back laid-off workers because the equipment and plant are all gone now, either junked or shipped off to China.

So as long as oil, gas, uranium, nickel, and potash prices are low, Canada is going to be in some serious economic trouble. We are still America's largest trading partner with imports and exports combing, but China leads us in exports, which has never, ever happened before with the CAD so low.

God bless you and your job search, I'll remember to keep that in my prayers.

Anonymous said...

After trying to understand Pope Francis and the confusion he has wrought in the Church I personally cannot believe he is the desired "Angelic Shepherd". Emmett, I don't know if this is your belief or not. I'm very distressed by the state of the Church and have refrained from writing about it. But, at least there are a few clerics and bishops who I believe are aware of the problem and continue faithfully on, giving courage to those of us who feel the same way. I hope this excellent article (link below) written by Bishop Anthanasius Schneider is read by everyone who reads this blog. It's a little long but an excellent summary of the mournful situation that the Church is in today. Interestingly enough, the bishop writes that the Church is going through her passion now. How many people see or perceive this? Maybe you'll understand after you read the article:
http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2016/02/exclusive-bishop-athanasius-schneider.html

rose

Mark W said...

Rose,

Amen,

MarkW

Emmett O'Regan said...

Hi Rose,

I don't really know what to think about that prophecy in this particular instance now. It wasn't me who made it though! It was written hundreds of years ago! If there is some massive turnaround, and a major spiritual renewal takes place during the course of this papacy, then the prophecy would be proven right. Remember, it is just as the Church looks in danger of being swept away that the earth will open its mouth and swallow the flood spewed forth by the Dragon.

"The serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, to sweep her away with a flood. But the earth came to the help of the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed the river that the dragon had poured from his mouth. Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus."(Rev 12:15-17)

I think the year 2017 will provide us with more information on how everything is going pan out in this regard. We need to pay heed the requests of the shepherd children, and pray very much for the Holy Father. But whatever the case with the validity of the Worthy Shepherd Prophecy, we do know that the Church will eventually be restored before the arrival of the Antichrist.

Anonymous said...

Hi everyone!
Bishop Schneider is wonderful! I think Emmett is probably right -- that 2017 (and even possibly this year) things will show themselves more and more - we shall see. Things are definitely on the edge in many ways. A friend of mine lives down the shore in New Jersey (around Atlantic City) -- last week they had about 8 earthquake type events -- houses shook, things fell off shelves -- there were 2 - 3 loud booms -- it was in the news and people from Cape May to Vineland to Red Bank talked about going through it. The official response was that it was F15 fighters and their sonic boom. Personally I think that was nonsense and another lie from our government. So yesterday he tells me it occurred again! Twice. F15's again? South Carolina had the same thing happen on Jan 26 and someone else mentioned that it also occurred in CT. Who knows what all of it means. But it is DEFINITELY an oddity -- my friend has lived there his whole life and I believe he said it has never happened before.
And then we have on a bigger scale - Hillary wins 6 of the precincts by a coin toss. And Trump who ALL of the polls had ahead loses by 4 points in the Iowa caucus. I just don't believe any of this anymore -- and I think its become blatantly obvious that only a massive awakening caused by our Lord will fix how corrupted everything has become. Rose I agree with you. I know P Francis is our Pope -- but I find it extremely troubling how he attacks conservatives at almost every turn. We will see much more regarding this when he releases his Apostolic Exhortation connected from the Synod of the Family. Indeed -- more then ever, as Emmett said -- we must pray and heed what the Shepherds of Fatima were told.
United in prayer
Michael Patrick

Mark W said...

Hi Michael Patrick - I've heard a couple of sonic booms in my time. Once when I was a kid. It was caused by an airplane going supersonic. While it was loud, it didn't shake walls or rattle windows. It was very noticeable, but not that dramatic. There were two other occasions from the space shuttle. I live near Dallas. We are at about the spot that the shuttles would be in the atmo enough to generate the double sonic boom on their way to land in Florida. Again, it was noticeable - and really pretty cool - but not dramatic.

Have a look at this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWGLAAYdbbc

Notice that the greatest impacts for the airplanes are at less than 200 yards range. The Atlas rocket at the end is impressive, but it's thousands of feet up.

While it's possible that the booms your friend heard are F-15's, the conditions would have to be perfect and the aircraft relatively close. And Vineland is too far inland to get that kind of effect from an offshore aircraft. And the FAA air traffic control people along the Jersey shore didn't...um...say anything at all?

Mark W said...

Hey Emmett - How about this...

BXVI didn't "finish" his papacy. Therefore, St. Malachy's prophecy is still in play. Francis is a continuation of the Gloria Olivae papacy (albeit in a weird and heterodox way). In fact, maybe BXVI and Francis are opposite poles of the same papacy, especially given that BXVI's didn't technically "end" in the traditional sense. I read something somewhere that you could see Gloria Olivae in the name Bergoglio somehow, but I can't find it now.

This would, to Rose's point above, give us another pope left on the list...or maybe more than that if they can all be fit into Gloria olivae. Therefore, Frances wouldn't be either Petrus Romanus or the Angelic Pope.

I personally don't buy St. Malachy's prophecy, but it's interesting speculation.

Emmett O'Regan said...

Sorry to hear about your troubles with work Mark W. These are difficult times. I haven't really thought about Francis being a continuation of the Gloria Olivae prophecy, but I did note at the time that the name Bergoglio can translate as "Mount of Olives" ("Berg" + "Oglio"), which I thought was weird. So that would make sense in a fashion. I'm near certain that the list of popes is a later fabrication, and is nothing to do with St. Malachy himself. That doesn't mean that whoever wrote it didn't tap into something - anyone is capable of receiving prophecy. We have to be careful of demonic deception in such circumstances though, which is why its always best to stick to approved prophecies.

Anonymous said...

I haven't visited this blog since I wrote my comment. But one little coincidence popped out at me when I looked up the crest of Bishop Schneider. Interestingly enough it depicts two angels. I get mixed up, but I'm assuming that the prophecy of the Worthy Shepherd and the Angelic Pastor refer to the same person. I'm not sure. Also, Bishop Schneider's motto is: Kyrie Eleison. Isn't that neat?! This gives me hope! : )
rose

Anonymous said...

Rose
I agree. There is -- at this time-- and it will continue in a major way -- a dividing is occurring. More then ever. Sides are being chosen. For us - its important to stick together with those who are at least trying to walk toward the Lord - amidst all of our miseries -- and to pray for each other and those who are still in darkness.
Emmett -- hoping for a new article for us to ponder as Lent arrives!
I know this is an aside --- Maria Esperanza -- spoke about things "beginning" in Venezuela. I'm wondering if this article (below) portends something in the realm of major financial issues for the whole world this year and next -- and if this is a sign of that and possibly what she meant -- because financial meltdown/major world recession -- might spur more things and be the beginning of our Lord trying to help us wake up and realize that we need to place him at the center of everthing - not ourselves, materialism, etc. Time will tell

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/204fc996-c8d5-11e5-a8ef-ea66e967dd44.html#axzz3zCWegcMC

Glad that we have this site.
United in prayer
Michael Patrick

Mark W said...

Anybody know if Maria Esperanza is approved by the Church? I can't find it anywhere. And searching for the "beginning in Venezuela" quote, I keep ending up at a Michael H. Brown article from 2004.

Emmett - have you written about her?

Mark W said...

Ok...never mind. After cajoling Google for another hour, I found some stuff Emmett wrote a couple of years ago.

MarkW

Anonymous said...

Hey guys,
I don't know why but I am almost positive! that this is part of prophecy. Pope meeting with Russian Orthodox leader. You guys are good at looking things up -- but I'm pretty sure that I read somewhere that when the Pope (a pope) meeets with the Orthodox leader that it is a sign that things are going to start (everything we know from various prophecies etc). Its either when they meet or when they meet in Russia. (which, after this meeting could be the next move. Who knows) Obviously, I'm sure none of us are surprised at this meeting -- since we've all been talking on here saying we're at the door now of massive change - and God's special intervention to renew things.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/pope-russian-orthodox-patriarch-meet-historic-step-36731265

United in prayer
Michael Patrick

Anonymous said...

I'm going to fast and pray that God blesses the cause of Christian unity and very good fruits are yielded from the meeting between Pope Francis and Patriarch Kirill. I feel this is the opening step to the unity that Christ probably wants more than anything else for His Church Militant.

Emmett, I know you have eluded to the big Orthodox Synod (if that's the correct term to use) coming up this year; do you see this event as setting a tone for what may come from the meetings in terms of ecumenicalism?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
FYI

To anyone interested in the "argument of the month' (between Chris Ferrara and Mark Shea) club here is that argument link: 'Has the Modern Catholic Church effectively abandoned the Great Commission' is the subject matter.

http://aotmclub.com/index.asp?pageID=18

I have not viewed it as just barely found it.

5 February 2016 at 12:06

Jason R. said...

This article caught my eye because it reminded me of a conversation I had with a cab driver (from Syria, I assumed he was Muslim) and some of ISIS's core beliefs to do with their expectations of the end times: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/syria-aleppo-1.3437048

From what I remember, he said that Dabiq, which is just north of Aleppo, is an extremely significant location in their eschatology,=. They believe that the "army of Rome" will basically set up camp at Dabiq, but that their forces, though greatly outnumbered, will beat this army, and then go on to capture Constantinople, adding it to their caliphate, and continue on into Europe. But then a false messiah will appear who has one-eye and is possibly lame in one leg known as Dajjal who will lead many Muslims "astray" into apostasy, and will thoroughly defeat the forces of the re-established caliphate, with only a small amount of survivors retreating to Jerusalem to make a last stand. Just as they are about to be destroyed , the Mahdi and Isa (the Islamic interpretation of Jesus) will appear and defeat Dajjal, with Isa killing him specifically with a spear. From that point the Mahdi will rule the entire world for 7 years, at the end of which will be more turbulent times followed by Judgement Day.

When I was listening to the driver's story of what ISIS believes and how they think if they can lure an "army of Rome" (which I presume they believe would be American which is kind of like a modern-day Rome) it will start the countdown to their end times I couldn't help but wonder if the Dajjal character might in fact be the Great Monarch, with the Mahdi and Isa being the Beast and the False Prophet. I know that there are some beliefs that the Great Monarch will expire at the Mount of Olives, possibly being martyred, but is the Antichrist expected to appear immediately after the time of the Great Monarch's death, or would his rise to power just begin at that point.

I was also wondering, are their any prophecies that say the Great Monarch may be missing one eye, or be partially lame? I'm not generally familiar with Islamic eschatology, so I don't know if this is standardly believed across the Islamic world, or is just ISIS's particular interpretation, but it really made me wonder how it might fit in with the Great Monarch, especially when I was told that many Muslims would fall into apostasy because of this Dajjal person as the Great Monarch from what I've read is expected to aid the conversion of many Muslims to Catholicism.

I'd really appreciate and be grateful for any comments or insights or thoughts anyone might have on this topic, no matter how short, etc.

Anonymous said...

Jason R.
Here's a prophecy from Anne Catherine Emmerich that should interest you, from Dupont's book, Catholic Prophecy with his comment added at the end:

July 12, 1820 [Anne Catherine Emmerich] "I had a vision of the holy Emperor Henry. I saw him at night kneeling alone at the foot of the main altar in a great and beautiful church ... and I saw the Blessed Virgin coming down all alone. She laid on the Altar a red cloth covered with white linen. She placed a book inlaid with precious stones. She lit the candles and the perpetual lamp... Then came the Saviour, Himself, clad in priestly vestments. He was carrying the chalice and the veil. Two Angels were serving Him and two more were following. . . His chasuble was a full and heavy mantle in which red and white could be seen in transparency, and gleaming with jewels... Although there was no altar bell, the cruets were there. The wine was as red as blood, and there was also some water. The Mass was short. The Gospel of St. John was not read at the end.
“When the Mass had ended, Mary came up to Henry (the Emperor), and she extended her right hand towards him, saying that it was in recognition of his purity. Then, she urged him not to falter. Thereupon I saw an angel, and he touched the sinew of his hip, like Jacob. He (Henry) was in great pain; and from that day on he walked with a limp..."

Comment [by Dupont] Henry is the Great Monarch, chosen by God to restore all things in Christ. Other prophecies, too, mention that he will be limping. The Blessed Virgin urges him not to falter because the enemies of the Church are still to be defeated, and his mission is strewn with difficulties. The white and red of the cloths and vestments symbolize the purity of Christ the Priest, and the fire and blood of those times. The red color also symbolizes the age of the Holy Ghost, which is to come after our age of darkness. It is interesting to note, too, that St. John's Gospel "was not read at the end." This new development was foreseen 140 years ago by Sr. Emmerick. [Just a thought: The name "Henry" could refer to his role rather than his given name. The name "Henry" comes from "ruler of the house," ("heim," meaning "home" and "rihhi" meaning "ruler."

Nothing about the great monarch being blind in one eye however! I think it's also interesting about the way the mass was celebrated in this prophecy many years before the novus ordo mass existed.
rose

Emmett O'Regan said...

The Orthodox event in 2016 is being called a "Great Council". I would imagine that this will bring about an improved relationship with the Catholic Church, and may be important for the future union with Rome. But I don't think full communion between both Churches will be established until there is a renewal in the Catholic Church first. This is symbolised by Luke 5, where the great catch of fish is dragged on to St. Peter's boat, and St. Andrew's boat comes to help after.
Jason, in medieval thought the Great Monarch was also conceived of as being the "restraining force" holding back the appearance of the Antichrist in 2Thes 2. So the rise to power of the Antichrist takes place after he lays down his crown and sceptre on the Mount of Olives.

Jason R. said...

Thank you Emmett, I've never been exposed to that interpretation of Luke 5, but it seems so very clear now that you have brought it up; thank you!

It sounds that maybe the Great Monarch won't fit the Dajjal character, unless maybe the time between his demise and the rise of the Mahdi along with Isa is of considerably longer duration... it's interesting in any case to see if the two expected sequence of events could be the same, but one viewed through a very flawed and inverted lens, so to speak.