Tuesday, 9 August 2011

The "Fourth" Secret of Fatima?

Ever since the publication of the text of the Third Secret of Fatima on 26th June 2000, there has been questions as to why the secret was suppressed for so long. There are many unresolved issues surrounding this matter, most of which are too complex to go into detail here - so I will assume readers have at least a basic knowledge of the contentions raised by Fr Gruner, Fr Kramer, John Vennari, Antonio Socci, et al. The argument for the existence of a "hidden part" of the text of the Third Secret is both intricate and compelling, and many Catholics are convinced there is at least some aspect of the secret revealed to the shepherd childern of Fatima that remains undisclosed to those outside the inner workings of the Vatican heirarchy.
One of the major curiosities for myself is that there does not seem to be any element in the Third Secret that would warrant it to be kept hidden for 40 years after the date specified by Sr Lucia, thus escalating the unprecedented level of hype surrounding it. Although the imagery contained in the text of the Third Secret concerning the persecution of the Church is frightening, there is nothing so terrifying that would prevent the Vatican from releasing it at the specified time. As to what the alleged hidden part of the secret could contain to stop it from being made public, the same argument is put forward - it is simply to shocking to reveal to the common populace. But as I ask in my book - what could possibly be more terrifying than the biblical descriptions of the world being destroyed by fire, or other similarly disturbing private revelations that have been unhesitatingly circulated by the Church?

My theory is that the real reason this hidden part of the secret has been suppressed by the Vatican can be found in the rather telling statement given by Pope John XXIII as to why he wasn't publishing it. Pope John announced that he was not releasing the secret at the specified by Sr. Lucia because it “does not concern the years of my pontificate” (cited in De la Sainte Trinite, M. The Whole Truth About Fatima Vol. III p557). But how would the Pope know that it didn't refer to the years of his pontificate, unless it contained reference to a date well outside his expected lifespan? If the Third Secret contained mention of an exact date, there was no way that the Vatican could release it before this date had passed - both to ensure that the prophecy was not errant (as can be the case in private revelations, where the personal convictions of the seer is mixed with the messages being conveyed - see Cardinal Ratzinger's theological commentary on the Third Secret in The Message of Fatima) and not to whip the public up into a frenzy in the approach to the given date.
As to which date this could refer to, I argue in the book that this date was the turn of the millennium, and the reason that the secret is still being suppressed is that it is thought by many in the Vatican to be a failed prophecy and merely the personal convictions of Sr Lucia. But if the Secret does contain a date mentioning the turn of the millennium, and as I argue in the book, that it contains reference to a final and decisive battle between Our Lady and Satan at this time, then it seems that the prophecy did in fact come to pass. As I discuss in the posts The Year of the Dragon, Signs in the Sky, Our Lady of Assiut and The Two Towers and the Sixth Seal, there were a number of astronomical signs and events of major geo-political importance that occurred at the turn of the millennium - a date which is of central importance in numerous prophecies, including those of La Salette and Pope Leo XIII. And each of these prophecies are associated with the Fall of Satan from heaven - an event which the Bible appears to place at the end-time.
It seems that a major component of this hidden text of the Third Secret relates to the "oceans flooding vast sections of the earth" from "one minute to the next", killing "millions" - words spoken by Pope John Paul II during a conference at Fulda, Germany in 1980, when asked about the contents of the secret. In the post John Paul II: The Third Secret and a Prophecy of a Mega-tsunami, I argue that this may be a prediction of the collapse of the volcano Cumbre Vieja in the Canary Islands, which many scientists believe will create a mega-tsunami which will devastate the east coast of the Americas. And in the post Mega-tsunami, I argue that this event is also predicted in Rev 8:8, which describes a "huge mountain, burning with fire" being thrown into the sea.

This post is continued on More on the Third Secret


angel said...

The tidal wave will also cover large parts of England , it. Will also cover completly both Holland and belgium, it also covers parts of germany , two tidal waves form, when the volcano slides into the sea ,at the canary islands,one. Heads for eastern america,whilst the other heads over the uk,heading for Scandinavia,it uses the english channel as a funnell , whilst covering Holland and belgium,and other parts ie,France. And Spain coastal areas.I was shown all this in a dream in year 1998,i sketched it in a drawing and wrote about it,millions will die as a result of this,norman Holland,telephone, wigan,01942 621203

Emmett O'Regan said...

That's very interesting! In 1998 as well! The scientists Ward and Day admitted that their model was a conservative estimate, and that the damage may be much greater.

Metaphysical Catholic said...

Here are some quotes from another book on the subject from various people who are said to have read the secret:

Cardinal Oddi

It [the Third Secret] has nothing to do with Gorbachev. The Blessed Virgin was alerting us against the apostasy in the Church.

Cardinal Ciappi

To these witnesses we must add the testimony of two others. The first is Cardinal Mario Luigi Ciappi, who was nothing less than Pope John Paul II's own personal papal theologian. In a personal communication to a Professor Baumgartner in Salzburg, Cardinal Ciappi revealed that:

In the Third Secret it is foretold, among other things, that the great apostasy in the Church will begin at the top.

Father Valinho

Then there is Father Jose dos Santos Valinho, who is Sister Lucy's own nephew. In a book by Renzo and Roberto Allegri entitled Reportage su Fatima [Milan 2000], published—providentially enough—very shortly before the disclosure of the Third Secret vision and the publication of TMF by Ratzinger/Bertone, Father Valinho expressed the view that the Third Secret predicts apostasy in the Church.

In short, every single witness on the issue—even Cardinal Ratzinger in 1984—has testified to the same effect: the contents of the Third Secret of Fatima pertain to a crisis of faith in the Catholic Church, an apostasy, with grave consequences for the whole world. Not a single witness has ever denied that this is what the Third Secret portends. Nor has Sister Lucy ever corrected any of these testimonies, even though throughout her life she has not hesitated to correct those who misrepresented the contents of the Message of Fatima.


Shortly after suppressing the secret, that Sr Lucy insisted Mary wanted revealed in 1960 because it would be "clearer then" - Vat2 was opened and the Traditional anti-communist bishops were thrust aside, forced aside, and "reform" entered the Church. Russia was to be appeased. The disastrous consequences and apostasy ensued.

The question is: is the 3rd secret only partial, or a forgery?

Emmett O'Regan said...

Thanks for the input – I mention most of these quotes in the book, but there are some intriguing details here. I would plump for the “two text” argument forwarded by Fr Kramer, Antonio Socci et al. I believe that the text revealed in June 2000 is a genuine part of the secret, just that it is missing the accompanying words of Our Lady which Sr. Lucia wrote in a separate envelope for reasons known only to herself (intuition perhaps?). As you say, I believe this section refers to an apostasy in the Church (which we are currently enduring) and also an explicit reference to chapter 12 of the Book of Revelation – as can be gathered from the words of Sr. Lucia herself concerning the secret, and from several other areas which I go into in my book. I believe it is this section which contains a date (which I argue corresponds with the original 1846 version of Maximin’s secret where “a monster would come to disturb the peace” by the year 2000 at the latest), and that it was because of this date that the secret was suppressed from 1960 onwards – not because it is “too frightening”. After all the message of Akita gained Church approval, and that is pretty frightening stuff, as is the revealed part of the Third Secret in its description of a future persecution of the Church. The Church doesn’t tend to shy away from visions of terror, but rather from “minute precisions” that would place it in an embarrassing position if the prophecy turned out to fail (which it has to expect even in the case of genuine mystical phenomena, since it is difficult to disentangle the personal convictions of the seer from the private revelation itself). I feel that the date in the Third Secret referred to the millennium, and that many in the Vatican thought that this part of the secret was therefore only Sr. Lucia’s personal reflections and was to be distinguished from the visionary aspect which was released in 2000. I then go on to argue that if this “hidden text” of the Third Secret did contain a date concerning the turn of the millennium and that this was specifically linked to the “war in heaven” described in Rev 12, then it was in fact correct. But you’ll probably have to read the rest of the blog from the beginning (or the book if you’re interested in more detail) to find out why.

angel said...

Emmett,I'm the person, who had the dream about the tidal waves in year 1998, which was the year of the holy spirit ,I have been given many many visions,since year 1998 ,I can confirm to you ,the messages given to fr gobbie are true,what you've mentioned about frgobbie, he was a genuine and truthfull vissionary, and the message in regards the year 1998 , did infact take place, and happened ,the exact way ,the message was given to him,also , both medjugorje and garabandal are both true ,our lady did appear at garabandal and still is at medjugorje, I was shown the run up to the miracle,and also the miracle itself, it is eucharistic, ie,the miracle,and millions will be healled their, also I was shown the permanent sign to take place at medjugorje, we are very near to events happening now,

Emmett O'Regan said...

Angel, it sounds like you are having some pretty powerful mystical charisms. You should discuss your experiences with a spiritual director. It is a good idea for a person such as yourself to have a spiritual director - every mystic needs such guidance.
I believe that Fr Gobbi was geniune too - I didn't come across his "Blue Book" until I had already nearly completed my book, and was astonished that it correlated so closely with my own conclusions.

angel said...

Emmett,the year was 1998, see fr gobbies message, 666x 3 times brings up the year 1998, an idol would be built up ,and put in place of Christ.

Emmett O'Regan said...

It is quite possible that the year mentioned in this "hidden text" of the Third Secret refers to the year 1998. That is if it mentions the mark of the Beast. My feeling was that the secret refers to the war in heaven, given the concensus among Fatima experts on this, and from Sr. Lucia's own words concerning the Third Secret i.e. "the devil is in the mood for engaging in a decisive battle against the Virgin". Although my conclusions are merely speculative. It is a strong possiblity that there is mention of the mark of the Beast also, given that Sr. Lucia mentioned the Secret refers to chapters 8-13 of the Apocalypse. I'll go into Fr Gobbi some more in a future post - he mentions the "idol" before and linked it with modern technology such as TV, (this was before the internet), and equated the horns of the Beast with modern social communications technology. I don't have time to look up the exact references now (from memory it's in the 1989 messages), but as I say I'll go into it more detail later.

angel said...

Hello emmett , in regards to an idol being put in place in year 1998,it refers to a person, the rebel, this is the year,1998,that he made is first public appearance ,

Emmett O'Regan said...

I too believe that the turn of the millennium has something to do with the Antichrist. What it is exactly I don't really know (could it be that it is the moment the dragon transfers his authority to the Beast? See Rev 13:2) But his true identity will not be revealed until after the Second Pentecost has first taken place to heal the present Great Apostasy and the "fullness of the gentiles has come in" (Rom 11:25). In the book I argue that he will come to prominence after the collapse of the USA as superpower in the wake of the Cumbre Vieja mega-tsunami.
As to who he is remains a matter of speculation which is probably best avoided. Cardinal Giacomo Biffi certainly seems to feel that the Antichrist is already among us, as he has stated publicly, but there is no point in worrying about it, as nothing can be done to prevent it.

ernie said...

The reason for the apostate is the result of decisions made by Vatican two which acted in a way of removing the true identity of the Roman Catholic faith. The divisions are plain to see. It is my sorrow to feel in my heart that their is no return. I am led to believe that the third secret made reference to this sad event.

JoAnn said...

The kids in the picture under the title "The 4th Secret of Fatima," all look demon possessed.

Emmett O'Regan said...

I’m not too sure what date this picture was taken on, but it is almost certain that it was after July 13th, 1917, when these three children were shown the future history of the world, including the Second World War and a future persecution of the Church, as well as the horrifying vision of hell described in the Second Secret of Fatima:

Our Lady showed us a great sea of fire which seemed to be under the earth. Plunged in this fire were demons and souls in human form, like transparent burning embers, all blackened or burnished bronze, floating about in the conflagration, now raised into the air by the flames that issued from within themselves together with great clouds of smoke, now falling back on every side like sparks in a huge fire, without weight or equilibrium, and amid shrieks and groans of pain and despair, which horrified us and made us tremble with fear. The demons could be distinguished by their terrifying and repulsive likeness to frightful and unknown animals, all black and transparent. This vision lasted but an instant. How can we ever be grateful enough to our kind heavenly Mother, who had already prepared us by promising, in the first Apparition, to take us to heaven. Otherwise, I think we would have died of fear and terror.

So I think this may go some way to explain the haunted look on the faces of these holy children, who have done so much to bring people to the faith.

TheAolele said...

Your comments on the faces of the children are correct, Mr. O'Regan, they look terribly haunted by what they had seen in their visions. These were shepherd children from a tiny, isolated town in the mountains who had been ridiculed, laughed at, questioned, threatened, and put through trials because of their faith. I do not think that most adults could withstand the close investigation and speculation that they endured.

Peterman said...

I'm not sure if you have ever listened to some of the Malachi Martin tapes. He read the secret and says all he can without breaking his vow. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_229766&src_vid=7dEz15MEs5Y&v=xzRQUEMMntc

Personally, I believe as Fr Martin did, that Medjugorje is a demonic deception. Fr Martin probably paid with his life for this view.

Emmett O'Regan said...

Hi John,

Thanks for the links to the Fr Martin tapes. I'm in the middle of writing something on Medjugorje at the minitue. I'm basically a fence-sitter on this topic, given that I don't know enough to form a definite decision. But there is definitely something going on there, whether or not it's demonic will be determined by the current commission. If the commission comes out with a negative decision, and there is a falling away as a result, then these would be very bad fruits indeed. This would allow us to determine the origins of these visions.
That being said, I sincerely hope they are not of demonic origin, given that so many people's beliefs are bound up with this phenomenon.

Peterman said...


The "kids" in the picture are actually saints and I can guarantee you they weren't "demonic possessed". They saw hell, and two of them would be dead very soon after this picture was taken. God's ways are not our ways.

Emmett, as far as Medjugorje is concerned, I AGREE, something IS going on. I always look at these matters in the way our Lord advised us: "by their fruits you shall know them." If the so called "seers" are living in wealthy, gated homes and driving fancy cars and none have entered the religious life, and none are living lives of heroic virtue I can guarantee you those fruits are ROTTEN.

Vin said...

Re: Medjogorie, Pope John Paul 11 said many good things were happening at Medjogorie. Isn't it odd that he would say that before it was recognized by the church? He must have known what influence his words would have, especially if some thought it is demon inspired? I don't presume to know, neither should you.

Peterman said...

"By their fruits you shall know them"

This is the way our Lord gave us to discern. Using this discernment something stinks about Medjugorie.

You'll also excuse me if I overlook the opinion of a Pope who presided over a interfaith meeting where a buddha statue was placed over the Holy Tabernacle.

Greg said...

At La Salette in France, Our Lady told one of the visionaries of an important year which would begin the significant battle with evil - A.D. 2000. So, even if Sister Lucia from Fatima had written the year in the 'secret' to the Pope, it had already been revealed for at least a century.

Emmett O'Regan said...

Thanks Greg!
I cover that prophecy (given in Maximin's original 1851 version of the secrets) in the book, and in the following blog post also:

St. John Bosco pointed to this date also:


As did many others, including Pope Leo XIII.
I argue in the book that this was the date at which Satan was finally thrown out of heaven (as foretold in Rev 12) and cast to the earth, upon which he transferred his "great power and authority" to the Antichrist (Rev 13:2).
All the "signs in heaven" described at the opening of the sixth seal occurred at the turn of the millennium - signs which Rev 12 tells us would take place once Satan had been thrown down to the earth:


winno said...

In reply to Vin,
Medjugordje was rejected 4 times by the Local Bishops and then by a Conference of Bishops as "Not of Supernatural Origin".
The Medjugordje administration gave many statements saying Pope John Paul 11 loved that Our lady appeared there etc, but these statements were rejected by the Vatican. It has to be remembered that Pope John Paul 11 visited Croatia a few times and never once visited Medjugordje. Now the Medjugordje admin are saying the Church are investigating the visions again but that most likely the seers will be dead when the Church finds them to be true. Well at least the Seers get to make a lot more money in the meantime to live in the Luxury that God wants them to while Our Lady visits them on demand. There seems to be many visionaries about and there seems to be some on this page. What people need to be very careful of is who is giving them information. Satan can take many forms and people can easily be fooled by him. After all he can give some prophecy and some will come true but not all of what he says will come true. This is the differnce between God prophecying and Satan prophecying. God is never wrong. Satan is mostly wrong. If one of the visions that are given to visionaries do not come true, then it is not from God. its That simple. Test everything that is said and check out from many of the Catholic sites about true seers to gain knowledge on how to recognise false visionaries. In the meantime we should pray the Rosary to Our Lady to guide those who are being misguided by some of these false visionaries so that they will see them for who they really are.

Scribe said...

Petermann stated correctly that the "by their fruits you will know them" scripture should be used in discerning Medjugorje's authenticity. He sites the wealth of the seers as being a sign of the apparitions being false. I personally find this to be judgemental. There are many good fruits from Medjugorje: conversions (eg Fr Don CAlloway, a junkie and drug dealer who was converted by reading Medjugorje then became a priest) plus the witness of thousands who have been there and either been converted, experienced profound peace, or supernatural experiences of their own. Also the effect on the local catholics who have become way more devout. Job was an extremely wealthy God fearing man.